to think my dogs are Ok off leads around horses!

[Teapot101]

We walk a bridlepath around our home. We pass many horses with no problems whatsoever. 3 riders are continually rude to us and I've had enough. "can you put your dog on a lead" and when I did passed me saying "This is a bridle path you know" I replied that it was also a footpath! She was clearly grumpy that I was walking up the footpath with my dogs they could not have a good canter. They could have waited until I was at the end. My dogs do not approach horses and are very used to walking pass them. they do not bark or skitter or anything. We pass several other locals on horses and have no probs whatsoever. It's the arrogant attitude that is bothering me. They never say good morning, are v cold and standoffish, so do not feel predisposed to dive into the nettles to benefit their ride!!

Night, nicestrongtea. I have sometimes come across dogs in schools but didn't realise they were part of this debate! I usually just ride around them, as they're dogs my horse knows and I figure if he can cope with that, it will help with our ability to zone things out when we're competing.

I've had the farm terrier from next door run under mine's feet while jumping at home. I consider it eventing training - it happens to the best, after all!

Didn't Andrew Nicholson have something to say about the extendable lead on a wee dog that ran under Avebury at Badders the other year... Wasn't bothered about the dog... Just the lead

I had lessons in a menage and then when I learned to control a horse progressed outside onto busy roads to cross into forest and common areas nicestrongtea

That is normal in a suburban area.

When I went out I was heavily supervised at first for safety and then became more able to be more free and was able to supervise other, less experienced riders.

I didn't really want to though because I'm a reasonably good rider but not a teacher and didn't want to use my rides as teaching practice for others.

It's spoiling for a fight of you to say I know fuck all about it whether you strike it out or not.

limitedperiod about 25 years ago I trained for my BHSAI. I got stage I and II, the PTT (as it was then) and stage III stable management but flunked the stage III riding. I just didn't have the competitive experience, Pony Club background and cool head of many of the other candidates.

There's no way I'd try retaking the III riding as I don't want to jump 90cm on my own horse, let alone one I've never clapped eyes on before. I'm considering the UKCC scheme though as it would qualify me to train other riders. Whilst my jumping isn't great, my flatwork is somewhere between stage III and stage IV, i.e. approaching the level expected of an intermediate instructor. I'm quite capable of riding one fit, strong competition horse whilst leading another one alongside. Bollocks to umbrellas, I've encountered low-flying helicopters whilst riding and leading and not found it to be an issue. Nonetheless, I consider myself to be substantially less experienced than many of the riders who post on MN. If I were you, I'd back down.

And go and look up the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Wombles you presumably only ride your horse on private land?

Well, she's retired now so no-one rides her at all, but when she was ridden, yes it was only on private land. I never could get her over her hatred of dogs. Tried everything I could think of but she's convinced that they're the Devil Incarnate.

wonder what would happen if we let our horses run around loose, going up to people and sniffing them, while calling out "don't worry, he's only being friendly/he only wants to lick you"

I, for one, would be delighted! I've been licked by many animals, and mostly it's been a pleasure. But I do appreciate that not everyone would feel the same.

My sister commented on this thread using my account yesterday. I don't claim to know much about horses, but I've seen horses spook at a leaf they don't like the look of! I've also seen my sister thrown from a horse, that was heart stopping. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. She was thrown and hit a fence on the way off. It was awful. And she is an experienced rider.

Even the most bomb proof horse can spook, and if it spooks and decides to run at you then there's little you can do. A scared horse cantering towards you will do some serious damage. To the rider, the dog, other people around. For the sake of simply clipping a lead on, it doesn't seem a big ask.

Some people are more brusque than others, maybe the rider is inexperienced, or the horse is young and being backed/ridden out for the first time in public (every horse has to start somewhere!) maybe they have social issues, maybe theyre just a rude person, who knows?! But for the same reason you should give a rider on the road a wide birth, its sensible to attach dogs to a lead, it stops what could be a potentially horrific and fatal accident.

Horses, like other animals, learn in specific situations. That means that they can learn to live with umbrellas in their field or arena and still spook at them when they see them on the road.

If someone asks you to do something simple at no cost to yourself to help them out and ensure they stay safe, like put your dog on a lead, close your umbrella, or switch off your engine, and you refuse purely because you have a right to walk your dog, stay dry and drive your car, then you are close to being a psychopath.

I once met a neighbour while I was out hacking early in the morning. The bridleway had some frozen puddles and he was pushing his buggy right through them. The crackling of the ice wound up the horses so we politely asked him not to do this. He could have stopped while we went by or he could have avoided the puddles, but he did neither. He said 'Fuck you' and continued, passing within inches of the wound up horses with his buggy! His grumpiness at horse riders had entirely blinded him to the fact that in an accident between a horse and a buggy the horse would probably be unharmed and the baby probably dead.

God booboos, I despair. WHY would anyone do that?

I've seen horses spook at a leaf they don't like the look of........Even the most bomb proof horse can spook, and if it spooks and decides to run at you then there's little you can do. A scared horse cantering towards you will do some serious damage.
I read this and I think Horseriding is not an appropriate activity for a public areas. This thread has highlighted ovr and over again how unpredictable and dangerous horses are. And not just with an off lead dog. Maybe it's time horse riders took their unpredictable, skittish horses onto private land only?

Dogs should be on leads full-stop. Very very few dogs have absolute recall and I'd suggest the only ones who do are police dogs. Dogs are animals, not robots and as such are unpredictable. Horses can also be unpredictable. Not a good mix.

I was in Berlin last week and went for a long walk in the Grunewald. In that area there are places where dogs must be on leads, where they can be off leads, and where they can't be at all. I thought that was a really good idea, catering to everyone. Apparently it's been quite controversial though. Not sure what they do about horses!

Loafliner I read this and I think Horseriding is not an appropriate activity for a public areas. This thread has highlighted ovr and over again how unpredictable and dangerous horses are. And not just with an off lead dog. Maybe it's time horse riders took their unpredictable, skittish horses onto private land only?

The world isn't a large sanitised urban park, and horses until about 100 years ago managed to be our main mode of transport.

But yes, if you banned all hazards from public areas, life would be very safe indeed. There would be almost no-one about at all. Cars cause far more accidents than horses, so they can be banned too. Dogs should obviously be banned, because there are so many incidents of dogs attacking people, and too many dogs running around loose (while I've yet to see people exercising their horses loose).

I've been bitten by a dog off the lead when out walking, and last night when returning to my home, I passed two people chatting with 5 dogs between them, taking up the whole pavement. One was a sheepdog type and started following me, slinking down low. I was scared it was going to bite me, and turned to face it and held up my hand and shouted at it. It did stop. The owner, who had been completely ignoring its behaviour until then, got very irritated at me for shouting (not very loudly) at her dog and protecting myself. Perhaps she will also write a thread on mumsnet about arrogant, rude people shouting at her dog?

"I read this and I think Horseriding is not an appropriate activity for a public areas. This thread has highlighted ovr and over again how unpredictable and dangerous horses are. And not just with an off lead dog. Maybe it's time horse riders took their unpredictable, skittish horses onto private land only?"

Give me a scared, skittish horse over a human being any day. Horses I can cope with. Someone driving along at 60mph yacking on their mobile on a country road ("it's the national limit, I'm a safe driver") not so much.

IMO there's been rather too much talk on here about horses' unpredictability when actually it's pretty obvious that a prey animal will be frightened of a predator. The surprising thing isn't that horses sometimes spook at dogs - the surprise is that they'll actually tolerate an entire pack of hounds if we ask them to.

One of the reasons horses are used in therapy for conditions such as autism and ptsd is precisely because their reactions are relatively predictable and consistent.

It's a prey animal that feels much safer when in a group with other horses. Therefore, if another horse tries to pass it, it will probably want to go with it. If it hears crackling ice, it will spook, (as booboostwo knew her horses would spook) because crackling sounds at ground level could mean a predator. If it catches sight of a group of fast-moving cyclists out of the corner of its eye it's likely to be frightened. So when you're on the road you keep a look out and prepare to bend your horse's neck slightly to the right so that it sees traffic out of its right eye and spooks to the left, away from the traffic. It's not frightened of plants - it's frightened that a plant moving could indicate a predator lying in wait.

Yes, there are risks with horses. Yes, some very experienced people get hurt or worse. But I agree with Elke, there are many risks in life. You can mitigate them to a degree but you can't cut them out completely.

Well what happens when you cut out risks Galiban is that people become incapable of reacting appropriately to normal situations involving any other creatures that share our world. Theres always been a countryside code, which involves looking out for others, putting dogs on leads when passing other animals, etc.. The problem is not with the horses or the dogs, its with people's inability to follow basic guidelines when around them.

Thought about this yesterday. Out riding my cute-looking pony with my friend on her big horse. We met some people with a bouncy springer spaniel on a bridleway. As we dropped into single file to go past them they kindly put the dog on a lead. My friend rode by on her big horse (who is bombproof) then as I approached they let the dog off and he bounced off down the bridleway, passing quite close to my pony. I suppose they thought that cute pony would be no problem... So I just pulled up and told them, "Thanks for putting the lead on. However... The big horse isn't the one you need to worry about with a dog. This pony is on her 3rd ride out after being backed. She's not keen on dogs either". They were very nice and thanked me for the warning and said they'd keep the lead on for all horses, just in case.

You are being v v unreasonable!

I have a dog. I have horses. Its for the safety of the dog, the rider and the horse the dog is put on a lead.

As for the people who say "Dismount when you see a dog" That is silly and opens up a whole other can of worms. You will be less in control for one thing and you may not be able to get back on. Also if you got off every time you see a dog, you wouldn't ride for very long and you are teaching your horse that dogs are to be scared of.

Horses can spook easily. They don't know your dog apparently wont hurt it.
If your dog nipped at one of my horses , chances are it wouldn't live to make it home. The horse doesn't like dogs after a bad experience.

It doesn't take long to put a lead on a dog.

Horses over reacting to a leaf, some ice, an umbrella....doesn't sound like an appropriate animal to have out and about in public. Dogs should be under control too...horse riders are expecting everyone to bow to their wildy unpredictable animals, maybe they should take some responsibility too.

No they aren't Loaf, they are just asking for some consideration of the fact that a horse is an animal, not a robot. I think if you're on a bridleway it's reasonable to give consideration to horse riders don't you? The clue is in the name... bridle... way...
Give consideration on the road because in collisions with a horse the car drive is just as likely to get injured as the rider and horse.

One of our cars isn't a big fan of ice either. Could do a lot of damage if it got out of control on it... Perhaps it shouldn't be allowed in public either?

My horses might shy at a leaf, but since I ensure they have substantial public liability insurance, I have the skills to control them (under normal circs), they are well trained for their job, and wear suitable tack to maintain control, I have taken responsibility for them. My horse, who is competing at medium level dressage, is far better trained and more reliable (daft spooks included) than most people's dogs and children . I don't expect people to bow to his awesomeness and stop everything they're doing, but a bit of consideration goes a long way.

If I'm cantering, I pull up when I see someone. If there are children who want to pet my horse, I stop and chat to them (if it's safe). I pull out of the way to let other traffic pass - bikes, prams, cars - if it's feasible to do so. If I can make life smoother for other people on a PROW, I will do. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that in return, people don't allow their dogs to run under my horse's feet (or lurk in the undergrowth out of sight and jump out!).

Generally I'd rather people didn't put down their umbrellas if my horse were being a twit - I'd rather they stood still for a moment so I can pass them, and if they could reply when I say hi and apologise for my numpty animal, that would be super too - he'll probably realise it's just another weird human creature under the funny thing and it's not going to eat him after all! If they do, I certainly thank them!

There's a middle ground between expecting the world to stop for your unpredictable horse and expecting horses to behave like robots.
I think if every single time someone rides they are meeting several situations where they need to ask people to stop perfectly normal activities, then they need to review when or where they ride. Likewise if once in a while you need to ask a member of the public to help, that's ok too and not an example of a dangerous out of control animal out in public.
Most people if asked nicely will help, and if you explain why they'll know more for future encounters. I do think though if as a horse rider you want people to accept that occassionally your horse is not perfect, you need to also accept the same from others. If you want someone to be considerate of the fact your horse has taken a dislike to their harmless umbrella, and right at that moment the training isn't holding up, you also need to be willing to accept someone saying 'sorry on this occasion my dog training hasn't held up' with the same grace you want your lapses treated.
booboo has illustrated my earlier point well. Politely asked and got 'fuck you' as a response. If she'd not asked politely and rudely demanded he stay still, chances are instead of fuck you, an idiot like that could have responded by going out of his way to make even more noise, and shouting etc and making the situation even worse. And being able to say after an accident he was at fault isn't worth it.

One of our cars isn't a big fan of ice either. Could do a lot of damage if it got out of control on it... Perhaps it shouldn't be allowed in public either?

That is a crap comparison really isn't it? The car is an inanimate object. In your example, no a driver who is not confident about driving on ice should not be driving on ice.

If your dog nipped at one of my horses , chances are it wouldn't live to make it home. The horse doesn't like dogs after a bad experience.

As I said before, substitute "horse" for "dog" here and see how acceptable the statement is.

FWIW, my dog is always on a lead as his nose renders his ears inactive (spell out his name in a whisper in the house, however, and he is at your side in an instant). He isn't interested in horses at all when we encounter them but I shorten the extendible lead to its shortest and stand between him and the horse. I expect courtesy in return, which I usually ge, but not always.

I remember once when he was on a long line. I pulled him over and tucked him at the side of the path and the riders whinged at me for not pulling all the lead into the path, not a single thank you. Perhaps if they had stopped and given me chance to do so rather than riding on as if they owned the path...[shrug] they were arses but there are arses everywhere.

(As an aside, anyone who claims extendible leads should be banned can sod off as far as I'm concerned)

But the difference is "Soup" is that if your dog approached a horse and the horse got scared and kicked thats not the rider's fault. You cannot compare a horse to a dog.

If an unleashed dog went up to a dog on a leash and the dog on the leash attacks the dog not on the leash surely that would be the responsibility of the dog owner who allowed their dog to approach another animal?

As I said one of my horse HATES dogs with a passion. Including mine. After she was bit by one. If I'm taking her out hacking and we see a dog and its not on a lead I will politely ask for the dog to be put on a lead. I would explain why. If I take my dog out and we see a horse I always stop and let the horses go by after my dog has been called back and put on a lead. Its common sense.

Loafliner Horses over reacting to a leaf, some ice, an umbrella....doesn't sound like an appropriate animal to have out and about in public. Dogs should be under control too...horse riders are expecting everyone to bow to their wildy unpredictable animals, maybe they should take some responsibility too

I think you need to educate yourself a bit more around animals. You are a human, its presumably possible for you to learn likely animal responses...

My horse is well trained. Its an umbrella going up right next to him as I'm riding past, someone deliberately riding and revving their off-road motorbike repeatedly past him, two men deliberately making their model aeroplanes take off and land right next to him as I rode past, someone with a dog on a long line where that long line is trailing about like a snake all over the middle of the bridleway and you have to stop and wait for them to organise themselves...sort of semi-deliberate lack of consideration.

I agree with the above statement about sociopaths - the rate is supposed to be around 1 in 20, and you see it in how people behave in public.

The bridleway had some frozen puddles and he was pushing his buggy right through them. The crackling of the ice wound up the horses so we politely asked him not to do this. He could have stopped while we went by or he could have avoided the puddles, but he did neither. He said 'Fuck you' and continued.

That was completely wrong and also stupid of him.

My point is that everyone is entitled to use public spaces as long as they behave in a reasonable manner.

I used to ride; I don't now. I don't own a dog. Riders are entitled to use bridlepaths and public land and to use roads in order to reach them. Anyone who deliberately winds up a horse is horrible and stupid.

But dog walkers are equally entitled to allow their animals off the lead in some areas if they are well-behaved, I'd say that was on a bridlepath or a common.

If your horse is going to be seriously spooked by encountering a friendly and inquisitive dog or by people opening umbrellas then you should ask yourself whether you should be riding it on public land where you will encounter these hazards.

I find the posts almost revelling in the amount of damage a kick from a horse could do to a dog rather disturbing.