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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think my dogs are Ok off leads around horses!

290 replies

Teapot101 · 01/08/2015 14:13

We walk a bridlepath around our home. We pass many horses with no problems whatsoever. 3 riders are continually rude to us and I've had enough. "can you put your dog on a lead" and when I did passed me saying "This is a bridle path you know" I replied that it was also a footpath! She was clearly grumpy that I was walking up the footpath with my dogs they could not have a good canter. They could have waited until I was at the end. My dogs do not approach horses and are very used to walking pass them. they do not bark or skitter or anything. We pass several other locals on horses and have no probs whatsoever. It's the arrogant attitude that is bothering me. They never say good morning, are v cold and standoffish, so do not feel predisposed to dive into the nettles to benefit their ride!!

OP posts:
ElkeDagMeisje · 03/08/2015 13:02

If your horse is going to be seriously spooked by encountering a friendly and inquisitive dog or by people opening umbrellas then you should ask yourself whether you should be riding it on public land where you will encounter these hazards.

Ah. So we have now moved on to "opening umbrellas". Which is entirely different to an already opened umbrella, especially one which is not being blown about on a windy day.

I think most people might get a bit of a fright if an umbrella was opened right next to them as they were walking past. So we exclude dogs, cars, people and horses, all on the same set of criteria, that they might react to hazards or cause hazards themselves. That's right, we overturn the entire course of history and the set of rules that most people have bothered to learn before venturing out (country code, common courtesy, whatever you call it), just in case some dog walkers are a bit annoyed at being asked to keep their dogs under control.

I find the posts almost revelling in the amount of damage a kick from a horse could do to a dog rather disturbing.

So do I, but dog owners should be aware of this and not need it pointed out. I've been bitten by a dog, and it was one of the worst things that happened to me - I had to go to hospital, I couldn't get stitched because of the risk of infection, I had to have the wound flushed out because it was full of very painful bacteria, and I was on antibiotics for two weeks. I was lucky it didn't damage a tendon or artery.

I cannot guarantee that the next dog that looks like me isn't going to get kicked in the head if I panic. Clearly I should be banned from public places too, so that dogs can run around loose, out of control, and their owners not be offended should I object to that.

Agree with the above poster that limitedperiod sounds a very novice level rider who hasn't hacked out alone on a variety of horses. Even bloody Valegro might spook at an umbrella, so better tell the Olympic Champion she can no longer hack him out as part of his training in case he does so!

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 13:11

Agree with the above poster that limitedperiod sounds a very novice level rider who hasn't hacked out alone on a variety of horses.

That's probably true Elke. It also says a great deal about your arrogance and Gabilan's.

Shared spaces and all that. We are all entitled to use them whether we are Olympic level riders or Sunday morning hackers.

Not to mention drivers, dog walkers, ramblers, umbrella wielders...

ElkeDagMeisje · 03/08/2015 13:13

limited you are beginning to sound a little ... crazy.

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 13:16

I cannot guarantee that the next dog that looks like me isn't going to get kicked in the head if I panic.

That is a seriously odd statement ElkeDagMeisje

I was bitten by an escaped parrot once. I was trying to rescue it from my cat and it repaid me by sinking its sharp beak into both hands repeatedly. It really fucking hurt and I had to have a tetanus shot.

I do not hold this incident against the entire bird world.

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 13:17

limited you are beginning to sound a little ... crazy.

Er, snap Elke

Loafliner · 03/08/2015 13:17

I had no idea how fragile and dangerous horses were until I read all the stories on this thread. Horses pass by us quite frequently in an urban environment - they are on the road, we are on the pavement and from what you people are saying on here - the horses can get spooked from the simplest of things - opening a bloody umbrella, fgs! a leaf falling off a tree, who would have thought it!! They are a bloody menace!
My dog is on a lead, if he gets spooked I have him under control but it sounds like horse riders can't and don't!

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 13:39

I think most people might get a bit of a fright if an umbrella was opened right next to them as they were walking past.

I'd just like to say that I've never been frightened by the wanton act of opening an umbrella. But that might be because I am particularly hardcore.

goodasitgets · 03/08/2015 13:42

It's a half ton animal Confused with a brain. Physically I am never going to have the same control as a dog on a lead
My horse hates blue plastic but couldn't care less about umbrellas. My friends horse hates umbrellas. Sometimes no matter how much desensitised work you do, they still don't like it
It may be like my old horse, that the horse has been attacked by a dog at some point hence asking for dog on a lead
I asked a child to hold off with a football the other week because he was behind a wall, horse could hear thumping but couldn't see him. He stopped, came out, asked to pay horse and we went on our way. Job done and no stress to anyone

Gabilan · 03/08/2015 13:44

"We are all entitled to use them whether we are Olympic level riders or Sunday morning hackers."

Indeed, and at no stage have I said anything to imply that I think happy hackers shouldn't go out. I do however think that you are not as experienced as you think limited. If you were, you would either already know or be engaging with the information people on here have given you about the way horses perceive things. It's actually you restricting your own activity as you're the one who seems to expect an unfeasible level of control over a horse. Will my horse jump if someone suddenly opens an umbrella in front of him? Yes, possibly, because I too would jump in that situation. Would he cause an accident? Unlikely because he'd only get in one initial spook, there'd be no spinning and tanking off. And I keep an eye out for things so, seeing someone carrying a folded umbrella on a wet day I'd be half expecting them to put it up and I'd be looking around for traffic to make sure we didn't have a problem if someone opened the umbrella under his nose. (And if I thought they were about to put the umbrella up, a cheery "good morning" would probably distract them for long enough for me to get my horse past before them opening said brolly).

From what you've said here, you are used to hacking out on riding school horses. That's fine, I have no issue with that in terms of your enjoyment and right to do that. However, there are people on here who can school a horse up to Medium level dressage, or go eventing, or who have worked their way through their BHS exams. This means that on the whole they will know more about horses and the degree of control that is possible than you will.

goodasitgets · 03/08/2015 13:47

Exactly what Gabilan said
I will do everything possible to control my horse but if she is genuinely terrified, I may ask for help (as in could you not rev engine/flap that)
She's a advanced medium horse so pretty well schooled

browneyedgirl86 · 03/08/2015 13:52

It's a half ton animal confused with a brain. Physically I am never going to have the same control as a dog on a lead

Exactly. I don't understand why this is difficult for anyone to understand. Regardless if they are riders or don't know one end of a horse from the other.

If a horse spooks when you are on his back it can be a heck of a lot more dangerous than you standing at the end of a dog lead.

I have a horse thats scared of dogs. If I'm riding then she needs a lot of reassurance that the little four legged fiend (as she will see it) wont come near her. I have as much control as a rider can in the circumstances. Of course it helps if the dog is on a lead. Its consideration. For the safety of my dog I wouldn't let him run up to a horse. I don't know why anyone could possibly think that was a good idea.

goodasitgets · 03/08/2015 13:55

To me it's the same consideration as not letting an off lead dog run up to my dog that's on a lead when I'm saying "please don't let your dog near mine"
It's not because your dog isn't friendly or lovely, it's because mine is unpredictable, has a tendency to try to play in a way that irritates other dogs and can't ever be off lead
I'm trying to keep your dog safe - just as I am when riding

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 13:56

What do riders want?

I was ticked off and then sneered at for my novice riding ways for thinking: 'coming by' was a reasonable shout to make because I'd heard it being used.

It's quicker than to say: 'Do you mind awfully if I walk this pony/wheel this squeaky barrow past the menage because it might disturb the ponies inside?'

I'd find it completely reasonable if a rider shouted at me: 'Dog on lead now!' as a warning and then explained: 'Sorry for shouting. My horse is scared of dogs and I don't want anyone to get hurt.'

But it is completely unreasonable to expect to take your large and sometimes unpredictable pet into public areas and expect other people not to take their smaller and equally unpredictable ones there too.

I'm not talking about the Hound of the Baskervilles. Just a dog that likes to explore and sniff.

goodasitgets · 03/08/2015 13:59

What would I want? Depends on the dog. If you know dog will run up to horse then on a lead. If dog is going to amble on by, off lead is fine by me
Basically if dog will run up to horse, I can't guarantee dog won't get kicked so I prefer not to have that situation
There's one near me, an ancient lab that ambles along the lane alone and I have no prob as dog has no interest in horse whatsoever

appolina · 03/08/2015 14:02

It's the attitude as much as anything. I'll generally oblige anyone with anything if they ask nicely.

Yes, I agree with this. Though the OP's dog is probably under control and well trained

jacks11 · 03/08/2015 14:04

Some of this is getting silly.

Of course horses should be allowed out in public, especially on bridleways. Clue is in the name, really. And you cannot remove all risk from public spaces- unless you ban dogs, cyclists etc too. Or we could have bridleways which only horses can use, which seems a bit unfair and drastic to me.

Of course riders should make sure they are not over horsed and that their mount is reasonably well schooled. Horses should be reasonably expected to cope with everyday obstacles in most circumstances (although younger horses have to be trained somehow, but should be escorted by an older, safe horse in the first few instances).

That recognised, horses are not, and never can be trained to be, robots- even the most placid schoolmaster can be frightened by something. Some things are more likely to frighten a horse than others- common sense dictates that users of bridleways and other public spaces should take sensible precautions to avoid doing those likely to cause fright to horse when they see them. For example, don't let your dog approach a horse (inquisitively and with no aggression or otherwise) or put an umbrella up whilst a horse is passing. This is echoed in things like the highway codes instruction to pass horses wide and slow when in a car. It might be a pain, and horses on the roads should be fine with vehicles- but passing by them closely or at speed would be stupid and dangerous. So you don't do it. You don't do it to be nice to the rider or only if the rider is polite to you- drivers should do it because it is the safe and sensible thing to do and because presumably they don't want to be involved in an accident which may cause the injury or death of themselves, horse and/or rider or damage to their car!

By way of example, one dog I encountered recently bound out from the undergrowth almost under my horses feet. Think the dog was as surprised as my horse TBH, and I don't think it was attempting to attack us. Fortunately, the dog only got a glancing kick as my horse spun round and no serious injury to anyone, but it could have been so much worse for all involved. The owner had plenty of time to call the dog back as they saw us approaching- but as the dog was "fine with horses" they didn't think to recall it. I don't mind whether the dog is on a lead or not, as long as it is recalled and the owner in control. I don't think your dog approaching "inquisitively" but not to heel etc counts- dogs can be as unpredictable as horses and I don't know what your dogs intentions are or how my horse may perceive them approaching. For the sake of a few minutes inconvenience an accident could be avoided- so why not just do it?

I recall my dogs to heel and sometimes put them on leads when encountering horses. I also don't let them gambol up to strange walkers/children/cyclists etc- because I cannot be 100% sure what he will do or what those other people might do.

Of course riders should be polite when asking others to do something, but even if they are not surely the sensible thing to do when asked to recall your dog or whatever (even if asked brusquely or to do something which you don't see the point of) is to do it, as potentially causing/being involved in an avoidable accident is just does not worth it to make your point.

plasticinemachine · 03/08/2015 14:05

I have my dog off lead on bridelways but if I see or hear a horse approaching I always put him on a lead. He is very good but animals, even trained ones can be unpredictable, including horses! I wold never forgive myself if my dog caused an accident and someone was hurt. For that reason, I just don't take the chance.

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 14:10

What would I want? Depends on the dog. If you know dog will run up to horse then on a lead. If dog is going to amble on by, off lead is fine by me

That sounds entirely reasonable.

I used to have a saluki. She wouldn't have gone for a horse or a human but a small animal would not have been safe. She was also unsafe in traffic. Consequently she was kept on a lead most times.

But we would walk her to common ground and let her off and watch her run. She would come back when called. Actually, the best tactic was to lie down as if hurt.

I'd have been pissed off if a rider told me she shouldn't be off the lead in that circumstance because they also wanted to use the common.

goodasitgets · 03/08/2015 14:13

Mine is v used to dogs as there's two on the yard and a cat so she doesn't tend to bother. One pinging out a bush or growling might unnerve her a bit
Just common courtesy I guess, but as I said some rider may want all dogs on a lead when passing if their horse has prev been bitten/scared/kicked a dog

takeinyourhen · 03/08/2015 14:19

Sorry, I've not RTWT - but quote from here

Where you can go with your dog – how the law works?
The Public Rights of Way (PROW) network in England and Wales is a unique asset, providing thousands of miles of paths and tracks for you to walk with your dog. These paths are often indicated by official signs at the roadside and coloured arrows like these along the way:

Footpath – access on foot only
Bridleway – on foot, horseback or bicycle (although cyclists are obliged to give way to other users)
Restricted byway – on foot, horseback and non-motorised vehicles (e.g. bicycles)
Byway open to all traffic - as for restricted byway but including motorised vehicles.
As dog walkers, look out for horse riders, cyclists and joggers. They can startle your dog - or your dog can startle them - and cause an injury or accident. It’s best to put your dog on the lead as they come past.

The law protects your right to walk these paths at anytime and requires you to take simple steps to prevent harm to wildlife, farm animals and other people, so always follow the Countryside Code.

BeaufortBelle · 03/08/2015 14:26

Can't be bothered to read the thread. I grew up with horses. YABVVU. That is the only answer required on this thread.

NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten · 03/08/2015 14:29

Despite the thread title I think it'sthe rudeness that's the issue.

Regardless of whether you (generic "you" ... "one") think you are more of a "country" person than the next person, you cannot wander around barking orders to strangers on publicrights of way.

If you (generic) know your horse is going to go crazy if it sees a is not a licence to be rude to someone on a regular basis. In the OP it is the same three riders barking orders at the OP every time and never taking the time to explain or be polite.

I am not pro dog anti horse - I have neither but unfortunately I do know both horse and dog owners who think it's everyone else's responsibility to respect and be aware of and behave differently around their animals but that they should be able to do what they want ... These people (the ones I know personally) own both horses and dogs and expect other people to be considerate of them without showing the same respect to those not of their "type" (and no I'm not being posh-ist , these are not "posh" people just ones who think they own all of the countryside because they bought into the whole young farmers and pony club deal growing up, and/ or own land but think this means they also own public roads through villages and pretty much everything else...

If everyone (dog owners, riders, walkers who are neither, people going about their business who really are not obliged to be experts in equine or canine behaviour) was simply polite and considerate and ddidn'tassume a superior right to dictate what others do in public spaces, the problems largely wouldn't occur.

I do think a riding test and an mot equivalent would be appropriate for horses and riders to be allowed on public roads - you wouldn't expect a motorcyclist to be on the road if they couldn't control their 200kg of metal or the brakes didn't work, yet a girl I knew as a child was thrown by a flighty pony her parents bought her, leading not only to her being hospitalised but a passer by who tried to catch it needing stitches and eeventually the horse causing a minor traffic accident before finally being caught (and ultimately sold at auction... to an unsuspecting ill informed young rider or for dog meat - who knows). The fact is not everyone's proficient or sensible and not every horse is steady, and there is nothing to stop things like that happening...

Lurkedforever1 · 03/08/2015 14:34

Nobody expects horses to behave like robots. But I expect riders not to be exacerbating the situation by tensing up themselves and making them worse as I have witnessed. Laughingly calling your horse a fool and riding forwards is far more productive than getting a death grip on its mouth, taking your leg off and using a tone that tells the horse fear is a sensible reaction. You can guarantee when an experienced rider is on a nervous horse, any nerves will be purely the horses and the rider is doing everything to alleviate the fear. The type of rider that finds they regularly need to be rude or demanding to members of the public who aren't doing anything wrong are usually contributing negatively to whatever the horse itself is feeling. Go out looking for potential things to upset your horse, chances are you'll find them. Go out assuming the horse is fine with everything, and even if it's not, being relaxed about it will get better results. And in fairness I'd say people who hack in that nervous and therefore inexperienced manner are proportionately the same as dog walkers who should have thought more about the sense in using a bridleway for a less than well trained dog.
limited haven't got a clue what you're like on a horse but 'coming by' isn't a phrase in itself that distinguishes you as inexperienced.

PourMyselfACupOfAmbition · 03/08/2015 15:25

I don't put my dogs on their leads for horses (I have 3) but I do step to one side and instruct them to lie down and stay until they have passed. It's far quicker and much less of a flap for all concerned.

99% of the time I have no issue and am thanked for it. But you do get the odd horse rider who insists on being a bit over the top, shouting at me from a distance to 'put my dogs on leads!'. No need.

limitedperiodonly · 03/08/2015 16:15

I do however think that you are not as experienced as you think you are

Gabilan I didn't say I was an experienced rider. I am reasonably competent and can be left to my own devices within a group.

I am not confident or competent enough to ride alone but understand safety and courtesy when meeting other people or animals.

In fact I said that when ride leaders tried to get me to supervise others I was reluctant to do it. That was because I was unhappy that they were wasting my time and money as a 'teacher' and also because it was unsafe.

So where are you getting this idea that I regard myself as experienced from?

I agree with Lurked that people should be considerate of other people whether they're on horses or not.