to think my dogs are Ok off leads around horses!

[Teapot101]

We walk a bridlepath around our home. We pass many horses with no problems whatsoever. 3 riders are continually rude to us and I've had enough. "can you put your dog on a lead" and when I did passed me saying "This is a bridle path you know" I replied that it was also a footpath! She was clearly grumpy that I was walking up the footpath with my dogs they could not have a good canter. They could have waited until I was at the end. My dogs do not approach horses and are very used to walking pass them. they do not bark or skitter or anything. We pass several other locals on horses and have no probs whatsoever. It's the arrogant attitude that is bothering me. They never say good morning, are v cold and standoffish, so do not feel predisposed to dive into the nettles to benefit their ride!!

[appolina]

Good, common sense post, Nurnoch!

[ThisIsClemFandango]

It's the OPs title of the thread which a lot of people have responded to mainly I think.
'AIBU to think my dogs are OK off leads around horses!' The answer really is yes, YABU. For reasons already covered in the thread.
If the OP had written 'AIBU to be pissed off about these riders' rudeness?' It would have drawn slightly different responses I think. Her issues seems to be mainly about their rudeness, which she has a point about - the rudeness isn't really on - but they also have a point regarding the dogs being on a lead.

[pinkfrocks]

Oh my goodness- 11 pages?

All that needs to be said is put your dog on a bloody lead in case it or the horses act unpredictably.

As for the riders being rude- maybe they have had a previous bad experience, or maybe they'd had a row that morning with their OH or got PMS. You are taking it all far too seriously- except the bit about looking after your animal.

[Gabilan]

"I was ticked off and then sneered at for my novice riding ways for thinking"

No, you weren't. I don't sneer at people who are beginners in any discipline. We all have to start somewhere. However, I am wary of people who set themselves up as knowledgeable who don't actually have the skill set to work out whether they're knowledgeable or not. This is a problem where horses are concerned. If you're novice and say you are, you can be made allowances for. If you claim expertise you don't have you can end up in a dangerous situation. It's why very few riding schools (as opposed to trekking centres which are set up differently) will allow people to hack out without first seeing them have a lesson. Otherwise, you ask someone if they're capable enough to hack out, they say "oh yes, I've ridden lots", you get 5 minutes down the road and realise they've probably sat on a seaside donkey once.

Limited you started off talking about what was standard practice when passing horses, as if you were fully aware of what that practice was. When you were called on it you said you were referring to behaviour in a manege or on a yard and never meant to refer to etiquette when hacking, which was a surprise on a thread about encountering dogs on bridleways. When further called on this you switched tack to "I'm a poor beleaguered novice, you're all mean, I'm so reasonable".

Your continual story telling is quite funny though.

[limitedperiodonly]

Me: I was ticked off and then sneered at for my novice riding ways

You: No, you weren't

To be short, yes I was and you were one of the people who did it Gabilan

And you wonder why people dislike riders.

[limitedperiodonly]

When further called on this you switched tack to "I'm a poor beleaguered novice, you're all mean, I'm so reasonable".

When did I say this?

[Gabilan]

"And you wonder why people dislike riders."

Not generally, no. There are around 3.5 million riders in the UK. They're a very diverse group, equally represented across all social groups. People who ride are just people. You can't really dislike people just because at some stage some of them happen to have ridden a horse.

Of course you can "other" a particular group and, rather than seeing them as diverse individuals who happen to have one thing in common, just define them as different from you. But in that case, the behaviour and attitudes tell you a lot about the people doing the othering, and not much about the group being othered.

So no, I don't wonder why people dislike riders. I think if someone's stupid enough to dislike a group based on the behaviour of one individual, that's their problem not mine.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

NurNoch you could have an annual license requirement certainly. Although I'm wondering if your username indicates that some parts of your country of origin have it already? I know in mine they do.

Loafliner I had no idea how fragile and dangerous horses were until I read all the stories on this thread. Horses pass by us quite frequently in an urban environment - they are on the road, we are on the pavement and from what you people are saying on here - the horses can get spooked from the simplest of things - opening a bloody umbrella, fgs! a leaf falling off a tree, who would have thought it!! They are a bloody menace!

I wouldn't get it out of perspective. You don't really hear of many accidents involving innocent passers-by injured by being bitten or trampled by horses. There was that incident at the county show, but that involved a horse drawn vehicle and a busy agricultural show with lots of people in situ.

OTOH you do hear of a lot of cases of dogs biting people, cars hitting horses, and so on. So logically you want to restrict those still further as well. I actually find myself safer on horseback than on my own feet - I'm less likely to fall or trip, and I'm further away from dogs trying to bite me. But I've definately had a couple of dogs that I thought were very close to biting my horse's legs, that the owners couldn't recall and which were completely out of control. My horse didn't panic, if he had, he would probably have bolted with the dog in pursuit.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

LimitedPeriod I'd just like to say that I've never been frightened by the wanton act of opening an umbrella. But that might be because I am particularly hardcore.

That is a seriously odd statement ElkeDagMeisje I was bitten by an escaped parrot once.

My, aren't you the clever one? Are you trying to belittle me? What would be your motives for doing that? It certainly comes across that way. Obviously, in your grandiose personal part of the universe, the normal human reaction of being scared of a kind of animal that has bitten you and caused you to go to hospital is entirely beyond comprehension.

And you wonder why people dislike riders.

Actually, I find the opposite. People love patting my horse, sometimes taking photos of him, or just watching us go by. Very occasionally, someone is petrified of him, but that doesn't cause us any trouble, and even more occasionally, you get a sort of psychopathic person who has no consideration for anyone else and acts like a crass idiot in public. But you kind of know they are like that in any walk of life, and not just with horses. In general, I find many people really love horses, even if they haven't had much opportunity to do much with them.

[limitedperiodonly]

I don't think I'm especially clever Elke

I do find your urge to kick a dog, because another one in the dim and distant past bit you, somewhat disturbing.

I might want to pat your horse, but on balance, I wouldn't just in case you took it the wrong way.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

Limited I do find your urge to kick a dog, because another one in the dim and distant past bit you, somewhat disturbing.

Are you the sort of person who got into trouble for picking fights at school?

If a dog attacked me, I would kick it, yes. You've done remarkably well to extrapolate from that a desire on my part to kick any and all random dogs.

[limitedperiodonly]

Are you the sort of person who got into trouble for picking fights at school?

No

I didn't say things like this at school either:

I cannot guarantee that the next dog that looks like me isn't going to get kicked in the head if I panic. Clearly I should be banned from public places too, so that dogs can run around loose, out of control, and their owners not be offended should I object to that.

It seems a bit of an extreme reaction.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

You think defending yourself from attack is an extreme reaction? Why?

You do realise this thread actually had a topic once, and that topic wasn't your increasingly awkward personal interpretation of things, so as to demonise everyone from all horses to fellow posters?

[limitedperiodonly]

Wanting to kick an animal in the head is disturbing.

[Gabilan]

Earlier today I was practising going around in 10m circles. Getting this weird sense of deja vu right about now.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

Wanting to kick an animal in the head is disturbing.

So you would just let an attacking dog bite you then?

Mind you, you could quite possibly insult the dog into the ground. Others may lack your superpowers, perhaps you could fake some empathy for those of us who have been bitten by a dog, and who found out that freezing in terror didn't really help them that much.

How did this thread ever reach this level of discourse? Quite bizarre.

[Booboostwo]

Just as an aside the correct response to what you perceive to be an aggressive dog is to stand still, avoid eye contact, fold your arms and if possible turn your back on the dog. Of course it is not guaranteed to prevent all attacks but it should diffuse most situations. Kicking a dog might seem like a good idea but it is unlikely to work aside from other ethical considerations. If you kick a non-aggressive dog it may provoke it into biting you and if you kick an aggressive dog it will latch onto your leg.

[ElkeDagMeisje]

Having been literally latched onto from behind by an aggressive dog which hung from my leg for a few moments, I don't think I'll be turning my back on any more aggressive dogs Booboo.

Of course, it would have been better still if the dog's owner, who was with it, had not let it off the lead while I was walking past in the first place. Or if they had trained their dog. Or if they had done something about both of the first two after it had started attacking other people's dogs when being walked off the lead.

I can train half a tonne of horse to behave well in public. Why can dog owners not do the same?

[lardyscouse]

MiL had a £700 vet bill after a horse broke her dogs jaw. Dog was under control [on the Wirral way] and on a lead. Horse rider was terribly upset but, these things happen.

[Booboostwo]

Elke as I said it is not guaranteed to prevent a bite but this response has the best chance of doing so. Since this is a public forum it is worth reminding people what the guidance is, you want to do something else, your choice.

[Lurkedforever1]

elke as booboo says it won't guarantee it but will reduce the risk. The body language and eye contact used to kick a dog will massively increase the likelihood of it being aggressive. Unless of course you are actually knowledgeable and confident enough to take it on in the role of one further up the pecking order and get it to back down without being injured in the process. Which is never the case if you're acting through fear.

[limitedperiodonly]

MiL had a £700 vet bill after a horse broke her dogs jaw. Dog was under control [on the Wirral way] and on a lead. Horse rider was terribly upset but, these things happen.

If my dog was under control and on a lead I'm not sure I'd be quite so breezy if someone's horse kicked it.

How did that happen? And what would have been MIL's response if the horse had kicked her grandchild in a brightly-coloured pushchair, possibly rustling a crisp packet?

[ElkeDagMeisje]

It won't be biting anyone in future as it got seized by the police and pts.

I would rather use body language to take the upper hand in the pecking order next time.

You don't always get the chance to use perfect body language when a dog attacks. The one that bit me sneaked up behind me silently, didn't even growl or bark, and bit me on a public footpath. I didn't even know it was there. The owner actually said that because I was walking quite fast, it must have encouraged it.

The problem is that the owner didn't manage the problem. I can do nothing to ward off idiotic dog owners in the future, but I can control my own actions.

[whois]

If you have a hore who is so easily spooked, they should be risen on private land. Bridle ways are not only for the use of bloody horses.

[limitedperiodonly]

I promised myself I’d leave this thread alone after Elke talked about going ninja on a dog but I keep being drawn like a fly to shit.

Lardyscouse would you say: ’these things happen’ if another dog attacked your MIL’s tethered, and therefore helpless, dog and the owner said: ‘I feel really upset about it, but my dog is scared of other dogs and tends to get her retaliation in first.’

That’s not to mention that your MIL was on the other end of a presumably short lead, so was in danger herself from a horse that was spooked by what you said was a well-behaved and under control dog.