to think my dogs are Ok off leads around horses!

[Teapot101]

We walk a bridlepath around our home. We pass many horses with no problems whatsoever. 3 riders are continually rude to us and I've had enough. "can you put your dog on a lead" and when I did passed me saying "This is a bridle path you know" I replied that it was also a footpath! She was clearly grumpy that I was walking up the footpath with my dogs they could not have a good canter. They could have waited until I was at the end. My dogs do not approach horses and are very used to walking pass them. they do not bark or skitter or anything. We pass several other locals on horses and have no probs whatsoever. It's the arrogant attitude that is bothering me. They never say good morning, are v cold and standoffish, so do not feel predisposed to dive into the nettles to benefit their ride!!

nicestrong Maybe I'm reading the op differently. I took it that ops dog was under control, and the riders used a rude tone to tell her to put it on the lead. Which does put them in the wrong. Firstly for being the ones to be initially rude, and secondly for expecting everyone else to second guess what they think could be a potential problem and cater to it regardless of the fact they probably know nothing about horses.
Even if a dog walker is being unintentionally silly and lets their dog approach too near, a polite request and explanation why it's not a good idea is far more constructive for all concerned than shouting 'get your dog on a lead'.
gabilan again maybe I'm reading the op differently. And there have been some posters saying stuff along the lines of 'to reassure the rider'. It won't necessarily occur to random members of the public the rider might want assurance their dog is under control, so I don't believe it's then fair to be rude to them for not automatically providing that reassurance.

It's very common for horses to be scared of umbrellas. You often hear in reports of dressage tests that the rain started, umbrellas were opened and tension crept into the horse's test.

Horses are flight animals and no amount of training or desisitisation is going to change that. Here is World and Olympic record breaking Valegro losing his cool:
boblangrish.com/images/travelsimages/AV4C0956Rearing(GBR)CharlotteDuJardin-Valegro(KWPN)-DressageMasters,WPB2012.JPG

As a youngster he was known to lose the plot completely and take off across all of Addington's arenas. If people really appreciated horse behaviour they would give them a very wide berth!

Sorry, I always put my dog on a lead when we see horses. Not for the horses sake, but for my dogs as although I know she would be fine with the horses I don't know how they might react to her!

Lurking Its a general rule in the countryside to put a dog on a lead around animals not known to it and vice versa.
She should have put her dog on a lead as soon as she saw them not waited to be told- that's what annoyed her and she put it on the lead anyway!

Carry on arguing nonsense if you must - please be aware that if your dog attacked / injured/caused an accident to a horse/rider/animal such as a sheep and you were found liable then you would find yourself being sued, prosecuted and potentially your dog being shot( farmer has the right to do this if his animals are being attacked)

Really if you don't understand why someone might ask you to put your dog on a lead and think its ok to stand there arguing then you are not an informed dog owner and shouldn't be allowed to own one.

"wonder what would happen if we let our horses run around loose, going up to people and sniffing them, while calling out "don't worry, he's only being friendly/he only wants to lick you"

Agree, Elke. I mentioned up thread that it's not as if I'm strolling along with my horse loose, even though actually he will follow me without a bridle or headcollar. (Only ever something I do on the yard or in a school/ corral/ field, not on public highways!)

When I was out cycling the other day I encountered an acquaintance out on her young horse. He freaked at my bike so I got off, propped the bike against a tree (not hiding it or lying it on the floor, both predatory stances), and walked towards horse and rider, chatting to both of them. I gave the horse a shoulder rub and walked him past the bike. I suppose I could have lectured her on how to desensitise her horse before leaving the yard but I was actually far more interested in giving him a positive experience around cyclists in the hope that he'd cope better the next time he saw one.

I wouldn't class myself as an 'experienced' rider (although I ride every week) - but I am sceptical of charleybarley as well.

I'd put my dog on a lead near a horse, I'd be careful with umbrellas, I wouldn't pop up suddenly (had someone who used to do that to me every week - she's just appear a gave me loads of practice in dealing with spooking). Any horse is unpredictable. One horse I ride, best natured boy, happy to hack alone, plods along without a care in the world along lanes, happy on the moor, jumps well in the school, has a bash at a bit of dressage (etc etc) -spooked constantly when a new bit of wood was put on the school for a road safety test It was a flat piece of wood. Nope - he was all over the place.

Even a bomb proof horse is a flight animal - and best treated as unpredictable.

My best (or worst) spooking story was when I could see, from my height on the back of my horse, that a man had hidden behind a hedge I was about to ride past to do a poo. He was crouching, I don't see this often, but I thought I would just ignore him and ride past. However he then realised a horse was coming past and I could almost sense his indecision. Just as we were about to pass him, he stood up. My horse was horrified, snorted loudly and spun round. I hung on, just. Now, bit of an idiot horse (you do get them), but I'd love someone to show me how to desensitise a horse to a poo-ing man popping up from behind a hedge next to a bridleway!

OP, your thread title reads "to think my dogs are ok off leads around horses!". You are not following the traditional country code of putting your dog on a lead around animals though.

nice please don't jump to conclusions about my knowledge of the countryside or livestock and try to rather patronisingly inform me, you're way, way, off the mark.
For your information if I see an unknown rider I'll immediately call my dog to heel so they can visibly see I have control. And if passing close by/ likely to will keep to heel.
We might know not letting your dog go over for a playful sniff or greeting is common sense, but many people don't. I'm making the point that lots of perfectly pleasant people don't actually have much horse sense, and being rude when you encounter them isn't the best way to educate them. And if they aren't just harmless but misinformed, and are actively being stupid, being rude is not going to get them cooperating.
More serious though, if the clueless but basically decent person has just seen a horse they thought was fine and just had someone shouting at them to get their dog, when they meet a rider having an actual serious problem that could end very badly, and are asked to switch off their chainsaw, keep the kids balloon still, turn their engine off etc there's far more chance they'll think 'here's another entitled prat' and maybe not act as quickly. Whereas if the first rider had politely educated them they'd understand why they were being asked and respond quickly.

'Thankyou' goes such a long way. I call my dog to me and out him on a lead if I see a horse coming towards us on a beach, because he will bark at horses and I don't want him to spook them. But I do expect to be thanked, just the same as if I step aside with him to make room for joggers on the pavement, and put him on a lead near cyclists. And I make sure I thank others when appropriate. It's just common courtesy.

I've started this but am bowing out. thanks for 101 opinions. My conclusion is that the dogs should be on a lead around horses if politely asked but that the riders were rude in the first place. Maybe a communication gap that you have helped me bridge. Hope that helps any other riders/ dog walkers in the best approach in the future. x

Well you don't sound very well informed if you are going to continue to argue that the riders in the OP were rude.
They were not, they were well within their rights to tell her to put her dog on a lead and I would tell you as well if I thought for one minute my horse might react or was already spooked.

As far as I can tell from the OP it was a request, no one but you has mentioned shouting.

nicestrongtea where did you get the idea that I would rush past someone at speed shouting 'coming by'? I wouldn't do that.

I learned that signal in a covered menage. 'Coming by' while leading a pony at a walk or trundling a squeaky wheelbarrow, was answered by 'okay' or 'wait'. I found that safe and normal.

And gabilan where do you get the idea that I would come to complete halt if I met another rider. I said I would slow. I would never pass another rider on a narrow pathway at anything more than a walk. If I saw the horse was in a complete tizz I would stop though. Wouldn't you? I don't want us to get hurt and I don't want the other rider or her horse to either.

The idea that as a rider you have the right to expect people not to open umbrellas because your horse is scared of them is just mad.

I understand that horses get scared by all sorts of things. But opening an umbrella in a sudden downpour is a completely normal thing to do and if your horse cannot cope then you shouldn't ride it on public roads because people will do that kind of thing.

I feel people have the right to let their dogs off the lead in certain spaces. You also have the right to ride unmolested.

But if your horse is spooked by non-aggressive dogs and you are regularly coming into contact with them then you have to consider whether your use of the public space is compatible with the right of others to use that space.

OP you should have put your dog on a lead as soon as you spotted the horses.
That would be the best approach in future - no one would need to ask and you wouldn't be annoyed by them asking !

On the one hand, I sympathise, OP - I've known some very... worried... riders who didn't really seem to have much control, or confidence in their ability to handle normal situations. Being asked sharply to lead my dog (who is "well horsed" and very obedient - and would've been called back at the sight of the horse, and held by the collar if they were anywhere near us) would irritate me too.

People can be rude when they're nervous, and I sympathise with that too - but it doesn't really make it ok. And a (controlled) dog is not an unexpected thing to meet out hacking - it does make me wonder what they would do if they met some of the things I've met out and about. I had a deer jump into my horse's face once - that was a special moment - and have met big groups of classic tractors on a track no wider than they were on a very young, inexperienced horse. We've also met herds of alpaca loose (escaped!), landing hot air balloons and various emergency vehicles with sirens going. If you can't cope with a dog walker, you probably do have bigger issues being out and about.

That said, one of my horses is aggressive towards dogs and may attack one which that came under his feet. He would if he were loose (he has in the field) - under saddle he has thus far always retained his manners, but it's not a chance I would take if I met a dog walker who did not appear to be in control of their hound. The other one is very good with dogs, but would be a silly bugger if one lurked in the undergrowth and he could see some hidden predator in there. I'm not usually stroppy with people I meet who alarm him (I know him inside out and can deal with his antics - so I'm usually laughing and apologising for his behaviour!) but it's always possible you'd catch me at a bad moment.

I would also like to point out that the horse isn't the only dangerous animal in that situation. If the dog "nips" my horse's legs, there is a very real risk that he could pierce a tendon or even a joint capsule, which could potentially be a career ending injury - even through their boots. When you're riding an animal worth thousands (even tens of thousands) of pounds, who you've spent the last 5 years training to a fairly high level through blood, sweat and tears, you can get a bit funny about strange dogs around their feet!

limited you said you shouted "coming by"

Why would you shout near horses and "coming by" indicates you are taking them by surprise ie fairly fast.

"Coming by" sounds like you have already made the decision without any deference to the other party, their horse and its control.

And gabilan where do you get the idea that I would come to complete halt if I met another rider

Mainly from this post:

limitedperiodonly Sat 01-Aug-15 18:38:53

When you see another rider approaching you slow or stop don't you?

Where I come from, "stop" and "halt" are pretty much synonymous.

I learned that signal in a covered menage.

Horses in a manege can act differently to how they would out on a hack. They will still spook but the etiquette for passing is slightly different. In a manege they are more likely to be on home territory and/ or to realise that other horses around them are not likely to keep on going somewhere without them. Your problem with passing each other out hacking is your horse's herd instinct and potentially wanting to go with the other horse. In a school or more enclosed area your horse is more likely to be territorial and perhaps attempt to kick or bite the other horse. Since it's on home territory it's less likely to worry about the other horse leaving it (unless it's really quite young/ inexperienced and given to leaning on other horses).

WRT having your own dogs while you're hacking. I sometimes hack out with mine. I call him back and lead him if we're going on a road, or we meet people / dogs / other horses. He jumps up at the horse's shoulder and I clip his lead on.

Obviously I've never attempted this with the cockwomble-pony which thinks dogs are a potentially attractive snack!

I took it they were rude nice as I've said. And riders do not have a right to demand things in a blunt and therefore rude manner. I'm perhaps misinformed about the mindset of nervous or novicey riders who think they can give the rest of us a bad name by being overly demanding and rude.
I'm aware of how to reassure a rider who is needlesly nervous about an obviously under control and to heel but off lead dog, but don't see that it's my duty to cater to that while I'm going about my own affairs. If someone is that nervous or inexperienced they should either be out on a horse that's capable of staying calm or not out at all.
How I'd respond if someone asked me to put him on the lead anyway for their reassurance would depend on the circumstances. The only time it's happened it was a different dog, the horse wasn't actually bothered it was the nervous novicey rider and was bellowed across a field in a very aggressive manner and my response was along the lines of its a working dog on private land you dick, let go of its mouth, sit up and stop stressing and put your leg on and tell it to walk on if you want it to stop worrying about the dog.

nicestrongtea I said shouting. I meant calling in a loud authoritative voice that can be heard. Which riders use, don't they?

Especially if they're saying: 'Get your dog away from my horse!'

Which apparently you do. In some situations I'd even agree with you. Dogs can be dangerous or silly. Horses too.

If you believed I galloped past screaming tally-ho and leaving people in my wake, you'd be wrong and I don't understand how you got that impression.

Gabilan I've always said I would pass other riders on a narrow path at a walk but stop if they appeared to be in difficulty. So I don't understand you either.

If your horses cannot cope with friendly dogs, walkers and umbrellas then unfortunately you cannot take them where other people will be.

I agree that etiquette in a school/ménage/yard is different and I thought limited was applying it to passing riders when out.

Everyone knows the correct phrase to use in a yard is " get Archies fat arse over will you, I need to get by"

On no account use this phrase when out and certainly not with riders you don't know
Keep safe everyone.

It's a little silly to endanger your dog, a horse and the horse's rider by making a stand on putting your dog on a lead, just because you think the rider was being rude.

My springer spaniel is excellent on walks, brilliant recall, sits at the side of the road to be allowed to cross etc, but at the end of the day he is a dog and cannot be trusted 100%. We often walk on shared use paths and if a cyclist/horse/runner/other dog is on the path, I call him to heel and put a lead on without being asked. Surely it's just the sensible thing to do?!

YABU.

Coming by is a standard term, on a hunting field it could mean at speed, endurance or pleasure rides could mean trot, usually hacking would mean walk but basically means 'coming past at the pace I'm currently in'

I agree that etiquette in a school/ménage/yard is different and I thought limited was applying it to passing riders when out.

Well you were wrong, weren't you nicestrongtea?

Really limited whats the point in engaging in a thread about passing horses/dogs on a bridleway and then after tell us you were referring to being in a school ??
Really ? just so you can say that Im wrong ? < very weak>

My above post was designed to lighten the thread- I suggest you do the same and stop spoiling for a fight you seem to know fuck all about
Night everyone, as I said - to all dog/horse owners ,keep safe.

"Everyone knows the correct phrase to use in a yard is " get Archies fat arse over will you, I need to get by"

I just park DHorse and move whatever it is out of the way. Generally he parks very well, barring occasional spontaneous re-parking by the nearest food source. Or the day he decided he would park, but slightly closer to me because he wanted a nose rub, which I thought was cute. One day, in case he didn't park, I handed his reins to a friend of mine whilst she sat on her horse but she dropped him. I got back from getting my mobile phone out of the tack room to find him parked where I left him nonetheless, with a slightly puzzled look on his face as if to say "why did you ask friend to hold me? All I did was try to get a fly off my side and she dropped me. It's OK though, I didn't move."