To think Dentists are the new Lawyers/Estate Agents

[dougieroseagain]

ie social pariahs.

I am trying to find a good dentist. Well, any dentist. We moved regions and I left behind my lovely dentist where my kids went free and I paid (as a private patients) really quite reasonable rates.

I am now trying to register in the new area and the rates are extortionate.

£29 for a kid's check up.
£110 for me. For a check up.

I found another dentist where it was £20 for a kid's check up but they wanted to sell me their plan which costs £5 a month. ie £60 a year. But my kids' teeth are fine - they don't have fillings and the previous dentist was delighted with their teeth. So why should I pay £60 a year when 2 check ups will cost £40 a year?

THIS is why sodding American dentists can afford to spend $35,000 killing a lion.

I have found a reasonably priced dentist about 20 miles from where we live, but there is a registration waiting list of 5 months. I'm not suprised - it's the only dentist in the area which still has NHS places for kids and the check ups are only £18 for an adult.

THIS IS WHY THE NATION'S TEETH ARE FALLING APART. Dentists are pricing normal people out of going to the dentist. Yes, I know they have to buy the equipment and keep the place hygienic. But £110 for a check up is ridiculous.

We moved regions and I left behind my lovely dentist where my kids went free and I paid (as a private patients) really quite reasonable rates.

There's nothing to stop you continuing to see your old dentist - as long as you're prepared to travel

Mrs Morton - you are corect. They have the fluoride varnish applied in school and the fissure sealant applied at the dentist .

Gobbolinothewitchscat - I saw the accounts when I acted for a spouse in a divorce.

squidgyapple - several pages ago (sorry, not trying to sound snarky but i'm astonished how this thread has spawned a life of its own) I said that yes, it would be cheaper for me to pack the lot on the train and travel 200 miles to go and see him in Yorkshire.

gunpowder are you suggesting that the government set up dental treatment centres, along the lines of A&E departments?

How would get round (a) the funding issues (its not just salaries) and (b) the lack of foundation training places? Would you have them all staffed by non-UK graduates?

All I want is:

a) children under 18 and students (let's say undergraduate degrees, to stop exploitation through the permanent student brigade) to receive free dental treatment

b) a cap on dental charges, say £50 for check up, £35 for a hygienist, inflation linked etc etc

It's very short term savings to stop NHS funding for children, especially those with poor diets. All that will happen is that they will get cavities which will turn into abscesses which will lead them straight into A&E for emergency treatment.

My brother has lived in Spain for 27 years. He comes home to the UK to see his dentist!!

Children under 18 and those under 19 in full time education do get free NHS dental treatment don't they?

salmotrutta - no they don't. Some do, depending on whether the dental practice offers NHS treatment for children. But no. I have been quoted a variety of prices for my kids to have their check ups which is why I got cross and posted this thread. Trying to sign up at a new dental practice as a NHS patient (and I'm talking about my kids here, I'm happy to pay as a private patient - within reason) is like a needle in a hay stack.

salmo

Yes - that's right re: exemptions.

Here's the full list here. Most of the patients at DH's NHS practice are exempt for one reason or another.

But that's not the dentist's fault if there isn't sufficient NHS provision. That's the government's

As mrsmorton explained (way up the thread) basically dentists subcontract their time to the NHS. But they are given very strict parameters within their contracts in respect of the units if dental activity they can basically spend on patients. So, once the UDAs are "spent" the dentist wont be paid by the NHS for that work unless they can make an adhoc arrangement for extra UDAs for that financial year.

Like all medical care the scope of dentistry has changed drastically over the past 30 years, and changes in practice reflect that. I think that NHS charges/services are fair. I am a complex customer, the NHS has given me a nice, healthy smile at a reasonable price.

I bet many spend more on haircuts per annum than on their dental health.

I am sure a lot of them don't make much and plenty are women working very short hours, but the only one I was involved with (like Coll) professionally had something like 7 practices and I won't reveal the value and profits but it was ... well very high indeed. However in my view they are the exception not the rule.

Where I live we have always had good NHS dentists. One of my sons is getting really good braces work done on the NHS at present utterly free. I think it's because we live in an area near London where there really are loads of dentists. We are very lucky.

There's a site where you give your address and then you get allocated to the next dentist to have places for NHS patients. We waited about 8m when we moved and got a dentist 20 miles away, but all of us NHS patients. Eventually dd and I got onto the list of an NHS dentist we could walk to so didn't have to rely on dh being free to drive us. Just as well, as there were so many times when he couldn't. He's got himself a local dentist too now.

If we could have afforded to pay, we would have, but we couldn't so just had to do without until there were free places. As it was, I had major tooth trouble, exacerbated by my normal medication so that I didn't get a twinge of toothache, and ended up having extractions as an in-patient - emergency admission and over 3 days in hospital.

When Thatcher decided that we no longer needed dentistry on the NHS she was warned that this would happen. She didn't give a shit.

Final point before I leave (!) re: the dentist "earning" £179k as divined from the P&L - DH has correctly pointed out that only the interest in any business loans are included on that. So the P&L accounts don't show the big bastarding capital payments that he and most other dentists who "own" their own practices are paying before they get to take anything out of the business.

Gobbo - I take your point and I would assume that kids under 18 would be free on the NHS. But only if the dental practice accepts new patients under the NHS, irrespective of their age. This is the problem that I have. I'm trying to register at a new dental practice. All of them, bar one, are not accepting new NHS patients (even under the age of 18) which means I have to pay. One even has a two tier system for the under 18s - under 10s pay one price and it's then bumped up to another price until they're 18, then it's over a hundred quid for 5 mins work.

Yanbu, the availability of nhs dentists is appalling. Blame successive governments for not resolving this - are the dentists holding them to ransom or are they underpaying?

Maybe if less people were willing to pay privately there'd be more nhs dentists? It's no wonder children's teeth are rotting.

Most children's teeth are rotting (and adults' come to that) due to the massive amounts of sugar that we are shoving in our mouths numerous times a day. Coupled with our relatively poor lack of dental hygiene.

Arguably, with good diet and brushing etc, many NHS dentists would have lots of spare UDAs because the amount of treatment being carried out would be greatly reduced. They could use these UDAs for check ups and everyone would be happy.

But that's not a very popular opinion....

I spent 8 years waiting for a NHS dentist to appear in my area. It got so bad here, that people were pulling their own teeth with pliers!

I now do a 4.5 round trip to see a monster, and i mean the Sweeny Todd of dentists, and as a dental phobic i can't bear it, his theory on chipped teeth with healthy nerves and roots, is to pull it out. I have Osteoarthritis in my jaw, according to my GP it's my dentist's responsibility. but my dentist says you can't get Arthritis in your jaw - contradicting other dentists and the NHS website.

I have been paying Denplan for my kids to see a good local dentist for 10 years, but it would cost me thousands to get dentally fit enough to do the same. I can't eat certain foods, and know within the next 5 years, i will start to lose teeth.

4.5 hours

Dentist need to be well paid. Its a difficult job that requires someone to be good with their hands as well has highly educated. If potential dentists are not offered an excellent salary then they will choose a different career. I feel its not unreasonable to pay a dentist on a par with a doctor. It also needs to be remember that dental nurses and other ancillary staff need paying as well.

"Crusts, please answer this: If i spend time (which I don't get paid for) educating a patient about how to look after their teeth and they immediately and blatantly ignore it, do you think they are taking responsibility for their own health?"

I feel its a scandel that a dentist does not get paid for time providing education. I would like to see NHS funded sessions on topics like brushing technique, flossing, the affects of diet and snacking and looking after small children's teeth. Maybe these course could be dental nurse led. I have no idea, perhaps a dentist on this thread would have some ideas. Maybe there could be some videos inflicted on patients in the waiting room.

"My ds needed fillings - the enamel didn't form properly on his teeth, leaving them weak and prone to damage. I was scrupulous about brushing and diet when he was little. It's not always the parents fault and I would have been majorly fucked off if I was told to go on a course for something that was in no way my fault!"

Blaming anyone for dental decay does not help.I feel that being fucked off for being told to attend a course is a very negative and arrogant attitude. The type of parent who thinks they know everything is exactly the sort of person who needs education.

Little things like waiting half an hour after meal before brushing teeth can make a difference. Realising that middle class staples like raisens or fruit juice are as bad for the teeth as sweets and to avoid a child constant snacking during the day.

I tried a local dentist rather than going to see my regular one in the city. I came out with a list of treatment costing £2300. I revisited my city dentist and she said I probably needed one of the procedures, at a cost of about £200. All the rest was unnecessary.

I then tried another local dentist, they insisted on a check up every time I had a hygiene, so a check up 2-3 times a year, I dont think so.

I agree with the OP a lot of them are charlatans.

It is quite easy to get an NHS dentist where I live so I don't think private dentists can charge huge amount. The dentist I go to only charges £30 for a checkup which isn't much more than the cost of an NHS checkup but they spend more time on it so better value, I think.
The hygenist is more expensive (£45). I go about once a year because one of my wisdom teeth is very hard to clean but otherwise it wouldn't be necessary.

for hifi - I would have given you a and but then I would have been told off for my poor MN diet habits.

Mrs Morton, you have the patience of a saint. So much ignorance on this thread.