To think Dentists are the new Lawyers/Estate Agents

[dougieroseagain]

ie social pariahs.

I am trying to find a good dentist. Well, any dentist. We moved regions and I left behind my lovely dentist where my kids went free and I paid (as a private patients) really quite reasonable rates.

I am now trying to register in the new area and the rates are extortionate.

£29 for a kid's check up.
£110 for me. For a check up.

I found another dentist where it was £20 for a kid's check up but they wanted to sell me their plan which costs £5 a month. ie £60 a year. But my kids' teeth are fine - they don't have fillings and the previous dentist was delighted with their teeth. So why should I pay £60 a year when 2 check ups will cost £40 a year?

THIS is why sodding American dentists can afford to spend $35,000 killing a lion.

I have found a reasonably priced dentist about 20 miles from where we live, but there is a registration waiting list of 5 months. I'm not suprised - it's the only dentist in the area which still has NHS places for kids and the check ups are only £18 for an adult.

THIS IS WHY THE NATION'S TEETH ARE FALLING APART. Dentists are pricing normal people out of going to the dentist. Yes, I know they have to buy the equipment and keep the place hygienic. But £110 for a check up is ridiculous.

Surely there is a limit to how many party political broadcasts we can all have inflicted on us salmo?

This is the info for the pay of dentists who run an NHS practice, combined with private work, and it's the figure for 2008, it's a lot higher now. Those kinds of earnings (which come after costs) don't excuse the mad rush to private only work:

"For dentists who run the practice, holding contracts with the NHS, while also treating patients, the average salary before tax was £131,000, up by three per cent on the previous year."

These are figures for 2015, and these are for NHS dentists:

"Britain's five highest-earning NHS dentists are paid average salaries of £690,000 a year.

A further 11 dentists were paid between £400,000 and £500,000 and a total of 177 received more than £200,000. More than 1,600 pocketed £100,000-£200,000."

Understandable that they should flee the atrociously paid NHS to set up in private practice where they can earn a decent living.

I do think it's a great shame that it's now so hard to get NHS dental treatment. Dental health is very important - it's not just a cosmetic issue. We now know that there's a direct relationship between gum disease and heart disease, so failing to treat one can lead to the other - which ends up being more expensive down the line.

As for people being responsible for their own dental health, well, I've looked after my teeth well all my life but I do have what my new dentist describes as "moderate to severe" gum disease. I once said to my old dentist that I tried to keep my sugar intake to a minimum, and he said that it made no difference, and that there were only two causes of gum disease - failure to brush properly, and genetics, and that in my case, he thought it was the latter.

I am fairly insensitive to the price of my child's dentist (€100 per check up, 2x per year, not much of which is covered by social security or insurance) and orthodontist. I want her to have perfect teeth which will cost her nothing in adulthood.

These are contract values gunpowder not salaries. Are you really that naïve? Out of those figures they pay their staff, their equipment, their overheads and so on.

In any case, NHS dentistry is not a nice place to work (in my opinion) and who are you to say where people should work?

gunpowder - those figures are not the figures that end up in the principal's pocket. Plus many dentists work as associates - or they are sub contractors of the principal and are paid a % of the value of the contract that they fulfill (plus a % of private fees) minus lab bills etc

See my earlier post

^It's contract value that is reported. So the value of the contract is £180k

That is not what the dentist who holds that contract earns. It's like saying BP makes £100 million a year in turnover (not even profit). That means the chief exec earns £100 million

Out if the £180k, the dentist will pay for all of their overheads and (probably) the costs of the loan taken out to buy the practice too before they make anything.

Out if interest though, why would it be inappropriate for a dentist to earn 180k? How much "should" a dentist (or a lawyer) earn? £10k? Work for free? Pay for the privilege maybe?^

Re: associates, that should say ie they are subcontractors of the principal not or

OMG - OP here - I posted this thread after making a few increasingly agitated calls to local dentists and then went out on a bike ride with DS for the day. Have just logged back on. Will read this lot through and make a comment. Haven't disappeared, promise! 108 comments: this has obviously touched a nerve. scuse the pun.

I do lots of free work on the NHS. I take x-rays for free. I do one filling and if they need more they get the rest for free. I do a crown and all other treatment comes for free. if I do a root canal - that's free. I make a top denture and the bottom one comes for free. Oh and I clean teeth for free.

MrsMorton please don't tell people to complain to the GDC - I wouldn't want them to unlawfully raise our ARF again not when I'm doing all this free work.

Gobbolinothewitchscat I got the figure of £180k from the profit and loss account of the practice. It was the dentist's share, in a 3 partner practice, of the profit, after all deductibles. If I'd have been able to recall his share of the turnover it would have been much much more than that.

They only had one employed dentist as well.

OK - I tell a fib. It was actually £179,000. I just rounded it up a bit.

This was around 8 years ago.

I wonder if the dentists here would be so kind as to point me in the direction of some top tips for children's oral health?
I'm assuming big no is fizzy drinks. I've been quite lucky With my teeth I think but my husband had a lot of fillings as a child and I would cry a lot if my Dd had to have any.

Right.

My grandfather was a lawyer. My father is a lawyer. My uncle is a lawyer. My cousin is a lawyer. My best friend is a lawyer. My husband's best friend is a lawyer. They have a very dry sense of humour.

My dentist in Yorkshire was brilliant. I'm almost tempted to grab the kids and get back on the train and go for dental treatments there. It would be cheaper.

Husband has had dental work done with Bupa. In central London. It is still cheaper than the prices I've been quoted.

That is my point.

Sorry if you've taken offence.

It's easy to be insensitive to the price of something if you can easily afford it.

I do appreciate that my DC receive free check-ups.

One of my DCs baby teeth wasn't formed properly when it came through. My NHS dentist advised leaving it, and if necessary removing under gas and air.

I paid a pediatric dentist in London quite a bit of money to fill it instead. I wasn't insensitive to the fact that I paid, but happy to because I felt it was worth it. I'm also very aware that not every body could afford the same. I certainly don't begrudge what I was charged....I think it was value for money.

Have you never heard the lawyer / estate agents jokes?

It's probably best that I don't repeat them on here.

Oh, as for my job - I'm a SAHM. But I used to be (yes, really) a tabloid sub editor.

I guess leaving sensationalist headlines behind is harder than I thought.

crapcrafts google "jamie the dentist", he explains lots on his website.

How did you see the P&L accounts of the practice, can I ask? Plus, in any event, just because the profit is 180k does not mean that the principal takes that as earnings.

But, separately, what is actually "wrong" with a dentist earning 179 or 180k? What do you suggest they earn? Or should it be a truly vocational degree where they work for free? After paying for their own training?

Thanks so much Mrs M

I'd like an anarchist society where everyone is paid the same. But hey I'm for equality.

Jamie the dentist is HOT STUFF

£76 for me for check up and clean but I swapped so I'm on denplan which is about £12 a month and covers that for me every 6 months
Had a clean today (owww!) where she said my teeth are clean but my gums are always sensitive and bleedy (her words!) and had some fluoride varnish put on too

My dentist is wonderful! I would pay privately to see her as I think a good dentist is worth their weight in gold. Seriously, I wouldn't spend all day looking in peoples manky mouths, even for a £200k salary!!

Like any job, there will be good and bad individuals, it's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. I do think from a patient perspective though there can be issues with lack of consistency from dentists. I had one dentist who told me I needed a crown (I was a private patient at the time) I held off because I couldn't afford it. When I moved city and got a new dentist (NHS) she told me I needed a filling not a crown. She did the filling and tooth has been fine since (4 years now). It's hard to understand how advice can vary so drastically.

As for people looking after their own health, there will always be some people for whom that doesn't work. My mum has an unusual connective tissue disorder part of which means her salivary glands don't produce as much saliva as they should. This has led to her teeth becoming damaged and decayed and she's had a lot of work done despite the fact she brushes twice daily and flosses twice daily as well as using a saliva spray. Before her diagnosis her dentist thought she just never brushed her teeth!

They earn a huge amount, basically, and that's the NHS ones (out of public money). Those who are private only earn far more, having left the NHS because of the "low pay".

How much should they earn? They're well qualified, and it's not the nicest of skilled jobs, though apparently some like it. I'd say £40K for an employee and £65K for a partner (after costs). Higher in London etc.

Plenty of lawyers earn around £25-35K, even experienced ones.

At our NHS dentists' practice the dentists are mostly East European, they also had one from Greece. Apparently they can stand the measly wages.

You genuinely have no idea gunpowder