to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

yes beyond having nasty neighbours is a terrible thing.
But you are attempting to use this is as a metaphor for not accepting any migrants and it is just not very effective. Sorry.

Jassy, I'm talking after the fact. The amount of tax realised at the end of an economic period = tax take. I don't dispute that economic activity is dynamic. It obviously is (but year on year not that much) and having to try to reduce a deficit to manage a massive debt obviously doesn't qualify us to play moneybags to the world.

It must have been awful for you?!

Beyond awful, I nearly lost my sanity, at times wanted to abandon my home and my family, didn't want to have another DC because of the daily issues we faced I couldn't cope.

My child was sick and I couldn't nurse or care for her as I wished because of tremendous parties and noise from next door, pleas for quiet, mercy even fell on deaf ears.

smells from urinating on their floors came through to our house, smoke, drugs, peeing out of windows, fights, glassing each other in the garden drunk off their faces at 5pm on a week day when DC are trying to play, garden became no go zone, items randomly thrown over, trash, bricks , lit fags, constant smoking all round houses so no open windows EVER.

I found myself always short of patience as every day I dreaded what new nuisances they would bring, and this is of course on top of ones own daily lifes issues, cancer scares, child sick, ailing relatives DH job under threat.

I did think about ending my own life.

I used the word because it's good enough for our PM . Apparently he is in great trouble from the the usual whiners. . It's not exactly an orderly queue is it. Maybe when it is it can be referred to as such.

If we let three thousand migrants into Dover tomorrow I'm not going to suffer one bit from it. I own my own home, my husband's wage is enough to support out family and we are all in good health with no disabilities. We have no need for benefits, social housing or any kind of help from social services. It's the people who do need these things that are going to suffer as the already declining services will be spread even thinner.

Much of East Kent is deprived, and it's this already deprived area that's having to bear the brunt of the migrants coming into Dover. On a global scale as a nation we undoubted are responsible for some of this problem, but the effects will be felt locally and by those already at the bottom of the pile.

Ok so most immigrants will end up working, paying tax etc. So they become economically positive so to speak. Who knows, they might cure cancer or invent self homing Tupperware lids.

But it's easy for me here in genteel Edinburgh to say 'let the poor sods in' when the problem is hundreds of miles from my door. Londoners can't get dentists, local gp appointments etc and have to pay hundreds of quida month jjust to get to work.

The strain will always be concentrated on the south east, that's a geographical given.

But you are attempting to use this is as a metaphor for not accepting any migrants and it is just not very effective. Sorry

It is for people who have lived next to large numbers of immigrants who do not share our values and have no intention of fitting in.

Beyond - ive had neighbours like that, but were UK born British; are you saying your neighbours are like that because they're immigrants?! Likewise I've had some great neighbours, who were in fact immigrants, one doesn't neccesarily follow the other!

Thank you for using your imagination, Morris.

• but the effects will be felt locally and by those already at the bottom of the pile

Indeed loose the bottom of the pile, who have already been pushed further down as if that could be possible by already irresponsible immigration policies of Blair. The very Party who was supposed to care about those at the bottom.

" I used the word because it's good enough for our PM . Apparently he is in great trouble from the the usual whiners "

the only 'whining' I hear is from people like you.

use of the word 'swarm' is as far as I am concerned no better than inciting racial hatred. They are not insects, they are people.

using 'swarm' is giving a mandate for murder IMO. A swarm is something you fight, or destroy, Certainly you don't care if individuals in the swarm die.

Absolutely disgusting language.

adar I have had neighbour issues for a very long time like a decade.

During that time we had international mix of people who caused minor but quickly resolved issues. High turn over - same level of disturbance

During that time we had Brits who again caused minor but quickly resolved issues. - high turn over same level of disturbance

Then we had a long period with peoples from mainly three countries - high turn over of people and devastating levels of disturbance leading to the above.

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio this morning. The guy interviewed was a journalist I think and has spent a lot of time with the migrants in Calais. He said (in a joking way) that those people who manage to get all the way to England from East Africa, or wherever should get instant citizenship. He said the fact that they've been able to do that shows remarkable courage and guts and resiliance, just the kind of citizens we need.

I'm not sure if I agree with him but it's an interesting angle

You can argue dress it - say whatever you want but this is what I have personally experienced and lived though, be little me, try and say I wasnt friendly it was me who caused it - all rubbish. its my experience.

I would also be woolley liberal, citizen of the world had I not lived through - hell.

And also Coffee, I whole heartedly agree with offering asylum and letting people in -

I just think we need to be very very careful about it and put the lives and needs of our own citizens first which - after all is the job of our Government

And that makes it alright, does it?

It might help lend this thread a sense of proportion.

yes I have had hellish neighbours too beyond - so what?
I am not going to let that experience shape me into a hateful person who refers to humans as insects.
BTW my neighbours from hell were Scottish - should they have been deported back there?
And btw using the word 'liberal' as an insult does not do you any favours.

The annual cost of Trident over its lifespan is equivalent to roughly 1.5% of the annual welfare.

Fecking old.people, sucking all of this money out of the economy. Nearly half of the benefits budget goes on their pensions and they do naff all all day. (£92.1bn out of £217)

The next biggest chunk goes to the bloody disabled. What a waste of space they are. (£36.7bn out of £217bn)

2.4bn out of £217bn goes on unemployment benefits.

fullfact.org/economy/welfare_budget_public_spending-29886

This is an easy problem to deal with. Firstly, use British and French military to quell current Calais situation.

Secondly, it is the UKs reaponsibiltvto take these migrants. They are not asylum seekers...they are migrants seeking a better economic life and should have therefore sought asylum in the first country they arrived at. Italy or France or other EU country.

It's that country who bears the responsibility for their border control...not the UK.

In addition, I think the UK should be looking at immigration laws in Australia and copying their model. We are currently pretty much an open ticket and whilst I respect all ethnicities and welcome a diverse UK, it's isn't fair to just let migrants, even if they are skilled, keep coming to a geographically small island that doesn't have the housing/education and health infrastructure to support its own people, let alone tens of thousands of migrants.

yeh fucking cheese eating surrender monkeys - let them sort out their own problems. Perhaps if France was not full of vile racist French people, the migrants would want to stay there.

not the UKs responsibility to take these migrants. I meant.

Perhaps if France was not full of vile racist French people,

I wonder what made them racist? Perhaps they are sick of what is happening at Calais.

I love how the left ties themselves up in knots over the language whilst ignoring the real issue. It's largely a swarm of 3rd world, bottom of the barrel economic migrants who live on their wits and are out for what they can get. These are countries of millions of people , with jobs and societies that also provide oppritunities if limited . Only the men and young leave, many will be leaving for a variety of reasons - mostly not persecution. Many will be criminals on the run from their home countries. Some will have killed. Our way of life is totally alien to most. These people have somehow managed to find the means to travel through all of Europe and live at someone else's expense and now chancing their arm to cross to the UK to sponge and take what they can . Who've ripped up all travel docs or ID and lie and cheat their way as it's the only way they know . First thing they do on arrival other than get a job in a dodgy market for 2quid an hour, or live by , and get on through exploitation, is get a woman up the duff and then get an immigration lawyer to claim a right to a family life -they are bright enough to pick up on that. Or then send for families and scream ill treatment via a million appeals funded at your expense . Some folk are so naive as to what goes on here, just because you wish it wasn't true, doesn't mean it isn't!