to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

I have nothing to add other than this anecdote which I thought was interesting. A friend's sister fosters children. She was assigned a 14 year old boy who had been found at a service station in Kent. The lorry driver found him and some others in the back and dumped them before he got fined (fair enough I suppose).

The boy said he spoke no English and was 14 years old. She fostered him and he goes to the local school.

One day she was with my friend during school pick up at the primary. Another mum from our school is from Entria (sp?) and was speaking to him in the playground in their language. She told the (foster ) mum that he had told her not only did he speak English but was also 17 years old and had asked the Entrian mum where he could go to meet others from their country as he had been told by the traffickers to say he was 14 and spoke no English.

He is still in the local comp in YR 9 saying he speaks no English.

I don't agree with what Blair has done, cant stand the odious man, but I don't recall any intervention we have had in many of the African countries these people are coming from.

The fact that they are 'desperate' does not give them the right to threaten and disrupt people lives who are just going about their business, it certainly does nothing to endear them to me.

that is interesting figment - so it is British perception that is skewed, probably as a result of our "newspapers" - and nobody even enquires who owns them and what their agenda might be.

This is a further symptom similar to the rash of 'Benefits Britain' TV.
The saddest thing is that so many people are just too obsessed with money and material possessions (after all being rich is now a virtue!) that they are just too preoccupied to see it for what it is.

" I don't recall any intervention we have had in many of the African countries these people are coming from."

such as?

There was another case of a Man posing as a child in foster care. What can ss do as there may be genuine children? They destroy their ID.

YANBU OP.

Where do you live, coffee? Is it OK? It won't stay that way unless you manage illegal access.

So if there is no coherent narrative, no EU policy, then what is the answer? Just send in troops to round up vulnerable, desperate people?, that seems like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Like it or not, this situation will continue, people will try to escape desperate situations. There has to be an answer from Europe. There is unimaginable horror in other countries and as one of the richest nations in the world it is our duty to help those people as well as our own I truly believe that.

The benefits Britain TV has its good points. The jaywick one on five is very positive and upbeat.

"You can claim asylum in whichever country you feel safe in."

I'd like to live in Australia. Nice sunny climate, attractive way of life, etc. Can I claim economic asylum there?

Figment - those numbers are useless unless you compare them to the landmass and density of population already in those countries - we are much smaller than France and Germany.

I believe the whole world has a duty to improve conditions in the developing world.
But I also think that immigration needs to be tightly controlled and benefits only paid out to people that have paid into the system for a certain amount of years (including natives to the country) disability excluded.
Once we stop being seen as a soft touch only those whose lives are truly in danger will make the journey.
At the moment the people who make the journey are the people who can afford it/strong and intelligent enough to do it. These are exactly the people their Home Counties need to rebuild themselves. It's a bit like the brain drain here, the rich/highly qualified are seeking better lives abroad and the country is sinking deeper into civil unrest and economic disaster.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/chris-whiting/calais-refugees_b_7898814.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

An interesting article that gives a differing view to the OP.

those shows do have some good points yes.

They show unfortunate, undereducated people living in economically deprived areas, for the rest of us to laugh at, essentially.

However, contrary to intention, what we are seeing are great communities whre people are really there for each other!

HowD - yes I had a few of those in my Young ESOL classes, "16 year olds" with laughter lines! That has been going on for many years, it is nothing new.

Newflipflops - I have lived all over the place, London, Brighton wherever, and those places are FINE for ME as I am a UK citizen, I have nothing to complain about.
Illegal immigrants or (horror) economic migrants have never stopped me from doing anything - have they you? Could you send details?

TheNewStatesmen, don't you feel safe in the country you are currenly in then? Are you under threat of persecution? Because otherwise your comment just adds sod all to an otherwise interesting discussion.

" I'd like to live in Australia. Nice sunny climate, attractive way of life, etc. Can I claim economic asylum there? "

Well buy a ticket then on your credit card.
White people already have all the money and rights there, thanks to our UK, so you will be fine. I am assuming you are white.

If they are "asylum seekers" they need to claim asylum in the first EU country they step foot in. Rules on this are very clear. The men in Calais are already safe from persecution. They want to come to UK because they are economic migrants.

The French don't want them so they have no interest in trying to prevent them entering the UK / leaving France. I suspect that until a lorry driver / tourist / policeman is killed nothing really will be done.

I'm not in the UK - I'm an immigrant to Germany (am British) - we've just been told that our town has to take an extra 800 migrant/refugees/asylum seekers this year. They're building container villages for them. ( see here in German)

The problem is Europe wide and we need a joint approach which works for everyone. There was an interesting BBC article looking at if the migrants would be better off in the UK - here

" They want to come to UK because they are economic migrants."

shock horror probe - evil Muslim 'migrants' wish to feed their families!

Coffee, I don't need to send you details, it's a very simple numbers game. If our infrastructure is exploited by uncontrolled illegal economic immigration then we won't be able to live as well as we do now.

Given that many people appear to be having quite a difficult time already, I'm not sure how many pieces of the cake you think there are?

*Under the Dublin Convention, migrants are supposed to claim asylum in the first safe EU country they reach, and can be sent back there if they fail to do so. By definition, Britain will not be the first safe country for any of those who arrive from Calais. In any case, most of the migrants massing at Calais are not genuine refugees fleeing persecution to seek asylum, but are economic migrants after a better life in Britain. And since they are on French soil, the authorities there should deal with immigration applications and deport all those who fail to qualify. French border police have proved capable of tough action. In the town of Ventimiglia on the France-Italy border, officers refused migrants entry into their country, saying it is Italy’s responsibility to process claims.

Cynically, the French pretend the Calais crisis is Britain’s problem, since these African and Middle Eastern migrants want to reach our shores. They argue all immigration controls should be shifted to Dover and Folkestone. But this is a shameful dereliction of duty under European national agreements. The reason the British/French border controls were set up in Calais in 2003 was precisely to deal with the huge build-up of illegal migrants at the notorious Sangatte camp, most of whom were posing as asylum seekers. Moving the border across the Channel to Kent would attract even more migrants to the area, worsening Calais’s problems.

From article, dont agree with rest of it but thought no 1 was interesting

I often wonder at some of the posters on here who seem to believe that the answer is to allow anybody that wishes to enter, any country, they want?

I wonder...are they:

a) so wealthy that they can afford to rearrange their lives once the UK is dragged down to the same standard as these countries these illegal immigrants are 'fleeing' from,

or

b) actually from one of these countries or similar, and so having now entered the UK and found they don't like it here (as it's not like 'home') they wish to bring more of their own over in order to implement the change they wish for?

Yes YABU

There are 59 million people displaced in the world by war at the moment. 59 million. And most of them are headed for Europe. Can I just reiterate that number again. 59 million.

When these "economic migrants" arrive on the island of Lesbos, and are put in a camp that is supposed to hold 3000, they have no access to running water or sanitation. The stats have proved time and again that the UK is not the benefits mecca that the Daily Fail would have you believe it is.

So think about this for a minute. You are a young man. You may or may not have a family. You are trying to escape a country which is war torn and which you have no prospects of being able to provide for yourself or anyone else. Never mind the fact that your life is in danger. You only have one option for escape and that is to pay some highly undesirable individual a massive amount of money. They tell you to destroy your papers to get into the country. They tell you to lie about your age in order to gain protection. When you get to Europe, which you believe is peaceful and civilised, there is no civility. You are shunned and demonised at every opportunity. You are branded a criminal. Do you resort to any means necessary to get yourself to somewhere better? And to what you have been told is safety? Of course you bloody do!

I saw hands waving out of the top of a curtain sided lorry in a petrol station in Rouen and I saw the shocked expression of the Polish lorry driver. I saw the young man standing at the side of the A20 with nothing except the clothes he stood up in looking tired and disoriented. Did I drive on? Yes, because I had a car with two toddlers who had been travelling for 13 hours and my priority was to get them home but does his face haunt me? you can bet it does.

I don't have the answers. We can't open the gates to an undefined number but the lack of compassion demonstrated in the press horrifies me. You should be ashamed of yourselves. And yes I do judge you, very harshly. My you never know the desperation of these refugees. And if you do, I hope the world is a lot kinder to you than you are to them.

Pantone, that was a 17 year old BOY. He wanted to be safe. I'd have done the same thing as him.

Pantone - it is 'Eritrea' not 'Entria'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrean%E2%80%93Ethiopian_War

Of course there is also option c

they fully realise that their views are the minority and that the majority will step up and prevent it actually happening, so can sleep easy in their beds...feeling really good about how 'rite on' they are

Given that many people appear to be having quite a difficult time already, I'm not sure how many pieces of the cake you think there are?

The notion that the cake is finite in size is economically... interesting.