to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

Being a traveller might be a lifestyle choice of a child's parents, but the form was asking about Roma.

Understood, Dad. And I agree that there are potential issues in demographic shift, particularly with religious views and women's rights.

Some info www.travellermovement.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Gypsy-Traveller-Health-Briefing-2015.pdf

are Roma and Romany the same category, travellers who are probably of Irish origin are different to the Roma who come from Romania who possibly have set up camps in Hyde Park.

I don't understand why the latter I.e. Roma have priority in schooling, however the former i.e Irish travellers is fair enough.

friend Of course being a Roma isn't a lifestyle choice. How they chose to live on the other hand is IMO. I know romany people who have settled in homes. Doesn't mean they're foregoing their heritage or are no longer Romany, they have made different lifestyle choices. Deciding where you want to live is a lifestyle choice. Deciding to travel instead of settling is a lifestyle choice.

I'm not even sure they do (have priority) my point was just that this is how these tales start - someone puts a question on a form, and people become suspicious.

It's not an easy thing to deal with though - why should a statistical propensity to poor health outcomes trump our choice of my daughter's school just because she was born in a local gorjer family? I'm not saying I know the answer - but it's easy to see why resentments can arise, and quickly.

The travelers who have settled in homes still identify as travelers, it is not about where you live but who you are.

I disagree with you that traveling is a lifestyle choice.

You don't think of dwelling in a house to be a lifestyle choice, anymore than travelers think of themselves as making a lifestyle choice. They are just living their lives.

I do think my dwelling in a house is a lifestyle choice - I spend a lot of time thinking about the choices I make. I seriously considered becoming a traveller in a converted bus/truck or a canal boat more than once but decided I coudn't hack it - I would consider it to be a lifestyle choice if I did it.

BTW I don't think that's the same thing as it would be if was from a Roma background - cos that's not just about where you live.

Regarding the issue of asylum seekers not seeking asylum in the first safe country they come to, they may not be aware of the need to do so, thereby accidentally shooting their asylum claim in the foot. When people set off (often a very sudden move), do they understand that there are international regulations/standards surrounding asylums - even if they are aware of them, can they easily access information and resources in their own language in order to help them with a bloody difficult process? If we can't answer that question, is it really fair to judge people on their use of the process?

Furthermore, the consensus on the thread is that France is clearly a safe place, leading to an unspoken suspicion that they're not really asylum seekers but evil benefits seekers looking for the best country to plunder. Although I love France and think it's a great place to go on holiday, my opinion might differ if I was living in the Jungle, surrounded by violence, racism, and police brutality. Just because France is 'safe' on an international level, doesn't mean it is on an individual level - and this is what matters in asylum claims. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of a population is safe in a country if you can prove you're in that .1%

Basically, arguing they can't be 'true' asylum seekers because they haven't claimed asylum in France is kind of a simplistic argument

When people set off (often a very sudden move), do they understand that there are international regulations/standards surrounding asylums - even if they are aware of them, can they easily access information and resources in their own language in order to help them with a bloody difficult process?

And even if they do know the international rules, can they reasonably be expected to know the nuances of regional agreements such as Dublin II?

Good points.

Oh yes, that's a hugely important factor too! God, I would have simply no idea where to start.

Also important to remember that being an asylum seeker entitles you to very, very little in benefits. You are housed in hostels and B&Bs in random places, and I think family connections etc only count in a teeny tiny minority of cases. Plus, you get an entire £36.95 per week on a payment card that you can only spend on certain things, and of course you're not allowed to work while your claim is being processed.

As ever its the women (and children) that get the shittiest end of the stick.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/women-in-calais-camps-i-have-to-focus-on-how-i-can-stay-alive

There but for the grace of God go you or I - born British we have the privilege and luxury of being hard working tax payers. Our lifestyle, the food we eat, clothes we wear, petrol that fills the cars we drive, even the water we drink comes to us at a cost to someone else in the world.

With rights, come responsibilities - isn't that what we teach our children?

The women (and children) in this article are some of the people in this world who are paying the price for us.

Compassion aside, they are our responsibility.

Please think of these women when you are asked to contribute an opinion or act regarding this situation.

Some posters are saying that these are human beings deserving of compassion and that this is a complex problem that will probably require complex solutions (yes more security at the border, but also more joined up thinking at European level and more targeted overseas aid).

Others are saying that these are a swarm of criminals that should be crushed by the army hmm

No-one has said that as far as I can see. You are putting words into people's mouths there. It is perfectly possible to see that everything in your first paragraph is true, while at the same time recognising that if this problem escalates further then the army will be the only solution for adequate crowd control and safety. Of course if the army are sent in it will probably end in a uprising/riot with casualties, but if they aren't sent in it's going to end up in even more chaos with massive breaches to security and there will be casualties anyway.

Regardless of whether they deserve or don't deserve to be allowed to enter the UK and stay here, we cannot allow such alarming breaches of security to go on unhindered just because we feel sorry for them.

I think we do fulfill our responsibilities and we have always sent Aid to Africa and tried to support these nations, it is not our fault that their leaders are so corrupt and immoral. We have had many refugees from Africa already. Often they come in via the EU route anyway from say Holland. Sometimes they have to leave because they haven't worked there.

I know we had colonialism but I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for the Africans anyway if we had gone nowhere near.

I think they do have knowledge of the asylum laws and no doubt would have been briefed by the traffickers.

If France is racist then maybe they can change it. Why is it always our problem?

Just read this morning's news about a migrant guy who got to the UK and was actually given help by the French when he said he was going to the UK....they said OK and gave him free train travel all the way through France to Calais !!!

That's what our govt. need to del with....the other EU border authorities.....not the migrants.

I really think DC has a hidden agenda and is actually encouraging the migrants to come here, his attempts to solve the problem are very half hearted but must be seen to be doing something.

• miaowmiaowhiss Fri 31-Jul-15 22:37:16

Very good points indeed.

Just read this morning's news about a migrant guy who got to the UK and was actually given help by the French when he said he was going to the UK....they said OK and gave him free train travel all the way through France to Calais !!!

Got a link for that verbena?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181691/Hamad-s-fast-track-Eldorado-Sudanese-migrant-Italy-five-weeks-ago-UK-thanks-free-train-rides-Europe-wants-family-join-him.html

Oh well the Mail. 'Nuff said. Based on my extensive experience of the French railways I think it's pretty unlikely to have any grounding in fact TBH.

mum that's so shocking and obv a true refugee.

What I find most shocking however is that her DH left her - abandoned her - pregnant to get himself the UK and whilst happily ensconced here has told her he can't get her in and has not rushed to France to help her either.

Disgusting, appalling.

You know if it was a numbers question I would say lets take this poor woman immediately and swop her for her appalling morally baron DH.

I know we had colonialism but I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for the Africans anyway if we had gone nowhere near

I think it's helpful to distinguish between the many different people who live on the vast continent in many different countries and systems rather than lumping them all together as Africans.

I found it a real eye opener to read about what was done to Eritrea after the British got involved in the 40s. A total and intentional disgrace, dismantling a country's entire economic infrastructure to make it easier to justify carving it up to further Britain's geopolitical goals.

It's not an easy thing to deal with though - why should a statistical propensity to poor health outcomes trump our choice of my daughter's school just because she was born in a local gorjer family? I'm not saying I know the answer - but it's easy to see why resentments can arise, and quickly

For the same reason that being adopted or a LAC or having a AEN does.

Not directly to dad but can't be arsed to post twice.

If it was benefits these asylum seekers were after surely it would make more sense to stay in France as the French give more in direct financial aid to asylum seekers than the UK does its not far off twice as much.