to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

Jassy - no argument with that. My issue was with assuming that because someone says they came from Syria, that automatically rules out any idea that they are an economic migrant - it doesn't.

I've just watched some of today's news on various different channels and it was like watching clips out of Hollywood movie seeing people running under fencing, children being lifted over fencing and fleeing along like there's no tomorrow along the tracks.

bah! 504 error so posted again (more succinct version!)

No more. I've been reading another forum who worked with illegal visitors, apparently multiple identities are created, some manage to obtain council properties, more than 1 possibly and then sublet them. they lie about their age to obtain a pension when they are younger.

great for the UK citizens who need social housing etc

Woodhill for people who have supposedly been very poorly educated they seem to know their way around the system and soon learn all the scams going, no wonder we are having to face cuts and struggle for housing.

I think it is because some come from cultures which are corrupt and dishonest so this is seen as the norm.

Woodhill for people who have supposedly been very poorly educated they seem to know their way around the system and soon learn all the scams going

I think its hard for anyone to put themselves in the position these people have been in, including what its like to live in subversive society's that are not democracy.

If anyone cares to try read things like Wild Swans, Life and Death In Shanghai and so on to try and get an idea of life under crazy regimes that make no sense.

You may also glean some impression of how desperate these people are.

Desperate, un educated ( some) no understanding or knowledge of democracy....Of course many will play the system and get what they can, they have no loyalty or care for the UK as a whole!

They are desperate!

And all the reasons above is one reason why we should really vet who we let in. I do not blame these people one bit, I would do same, however does this benefit UK?

But many people on here will try to convince you that these migrants are all good, law abiding, peace loving people who are coming here to benefit our country.

I did not read anyone saying that moreshabby, must have been your over fertile imagination or natural propensity for putting words into other people's mouths! (fingers)

I heard the lady from Kent social services too. It reminded me of nicholas winton, who died earlier this month aged 106.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/10844808/Sir-Nicholas-Winton-at-105-the-man-who-gave-669-Czech-children-the-greatest-gift.html

I wonder what would happen today if someone tried to bring 650 Syrian or Eritrean children into the uk.

But many people on here will try to convince you that these migrants are all good, law abiding, peace loving people who are coming here to benefit our country

Well I am sure even the ones who want to work the system perhaps morally cannot be called bad? There is a system we allow people in - some will milk it and maybe they could never be blamed had we seen what they came from.

Its our Governments job however, to make sure that system isn't milked and protected for the poor and needy in the UK who need it.
And indeed to make sure its there for the poor and needy from other places we choose to allow to reside here.

I think it is because some come from cultures which are corrupt and dishonest so this is seen as the norm.

In that case, we don't need them here!

I have lost any faith in our government trying to solve this problem, DC is using a sticking plaster to mend a broken leg. All they can do is send more money, fences and now sniffer dogs. He said today he is going to thank the French pm, I don't know what for, he is continuing to let the migrants run riot over the few police in Calais, the farmers and ferry workers are burning tyres to inconvenience businesses and holidaymakers. Its total mayhem there and is getting worse, it wont be long before one of them is killed as these people become more desperate.

Building new fencing isn't going to solve the problem, neither are a few sniffer dogs. What a waste of resources. DC very out of touch with the realities of what's going on over there. He needs to put himself out there and see for himself how it's panning out.

I can't help but think of the 3 words bleeding hearts liberals...

And what tends to go hand in hand with that phrase nimby

Seriously the country is bursting at the seams - apart from the obvious cost, education, crime and housing issues the UK is so overcrowded travelling anywhere is stressful
I think Jazzy you will find the% of immigrants in jail and secure hospitals massively outweighs their actual percentage in the population. If you break it down to ethnic group you will find the percentage of the immigrant group in the population does not match their percentage in prison- massively overrepresented

To all you tree huggers who say, come one, come all, have you any idea how rife Tuberculosis is in many of the countries they are leaving
The answer is probably, no. You are too young to remember it.
Believe me, it's a horrible disease.

jassy

*When asked this question, the main reasons cited by migrants are:

They have family and friends in the UK.
They speak English.
They face racism in Italy and France.
There are more jobs in the UK.*

Quoting your reasons above surely there's a need with whatever world organisation (UN?) to help out the migrants from Syria, Iran etc...

Having said that migrants or immigrants who speak eg French (from Guadaloupe, Martinique, Seychelles, Ivory Coast etc) tend to go to France and Spanish speaking countries to Spain etc...

I think the French (from my perspective as my parents have property there) are racist yes, towards migrants/immigrants but less so if of course they speak French.

There should not be the 'they have family and friends in the UK' excuse really as generally a lot of migrants tend to head for London and South East which is already overcrowded as it is.

I can't think of anything else, of course I feel sorry for them if they're persecuted and want a better life but I can't help thinking other countries could help as well as we do. which I am sure they DO do.

SuperFly, not 'my' reasons - I thought that was clear? Sinply what had been reported as common reasons among the people themselves. I caveated the source of the infornation and everything....

I saw a picture of mums with children. That made me think really hard about just how shit things must be for people to want to leave their countries for a better life.

These are all people, humans and something needs changing somewhere

I think Jazzy you will find the% of immigrants in jail and secure hospitals massively outweighs their actual percentage in the population.

Have you got any statistics to back this up, or reasons that those I've posted are incorrect or unreliable? Who's lying? The MoJ? The Census? Where are the sources that back up what you think I'll find?

I managed to turn up what the foreign national, rather than foreign born population of England and Wales is, to give like for like comparisons. It's around 9%, total. The foreign national proportional of the prison population is 14%. Is that really 'massive over representation?' Does it give any credence to your claim that most immigrants aren't nice people?

I know it can be difficult when facts get in the way of one's prejudices.

I strongly suspect that if you polled non-EU-nationality born residents of the UK, we are actually much more likely (than British-born ppl) to say NO WAY should the people mobbing in Calais all be allowed to come here, and most definitely not by sneaking onto lorries breaking thru fences etc.

While there is so much inequality and injustice on the planet things like this will happen.

People want to have a chance at what they perceive to be a better life, for whatever reasons.

Don't you want a better life?
Don't condemn your brother man for the same! If you were in that situation you may be doing the same thing.

I wish I was surprised about how much hatred is being expressed towards 'them'.

However, having worked for an organisation supporting refugees a number of years ago, I'm not. I have worked for a number of charities, often in the children/families or disabilities sector. If I told people what I did they tended to think I was a little bit saintly (haha!)

Then I took a job in this organisation supporting refugees. When people I met socially heard where I worked I faced such hostility and hatred it amazed me. It wasn't just a disagreement about a government policy that can be discussed, and agree to disagree if necessary. Such anger and hatred. If I quoted statistics I was told they were lies - not any informed critique of how the numbers were compiled, which would have been completely reasonable, but anything that challenged the 'I know this because I believe it' was simply dismissed as lies.

Scary stuff. Especially when you compare language (and newspaper headlines) that were used in the 1930s to describe the German Jews trying to escape the Nazi regime - swarms, 'us' being 'over-run' and 'flooded'...

I remember reading a book by an Afrikaans academic and journalist about growing up in apartheid South Africa. He grew up 'knowing' that the British but powdered glass in the food they gave to the Afrikaaner women and children they corralled into concentration camps. As an adult, he looked at the evidence and realised that this was a fabrication (there was a massive death rate because even the basics of sanitation such as soap were scarce, and the British authorities didn't care) - but it was uncritically accepted by everyone around him as 'everyone knows' as a child.

I think of it whenever I read threads like this, when so many people 'know' that the 'swarm' are criminals, are benefit tourists, are scum of the earth etc.

I strongly suspect that if you polled non-EU-nationality born residents of the UK

Hmm. I fit in that box. But to be fair, I've never said 'let them in', which is why I find the representation of my views on this thread so very interesting and illuminating.