To think the British government reaction to Calais migrants is pathetic?

[ribbitTheFrog]

It's like they're just putting their heads in the sand. Meanwhile people are dying, hauliers are being threatened, holiday makers having trips ruined.

I'd do the following:

Make clear any illegal entries will be turned back to France. Make clear there are not limitless jobs, housing etc in the UK. Make clear no benefits to new migrants (if this isn't the case then change the law).

Presumably the migrants think the UK has lots of money and opportunities, otherwise they wouldn't be risking their lives to leave France (a safe country).

David Camerons comment yesterday is not exactly discouraging any would be migrants from attempting to come to UK.

Britain has got jobs, it's got a growing economy, it's an incredible place to live.

Typical leftie English self loathing going on "payback for our colonial days" - such total bullshit. Glad to watch this from afar in Aus where thankfully we take a more robust and self confident approach to our borders , free from the hand wringing bullshit and angst.

I do think the government needs to get tough. International law says you must claim asylum in the first safe country. This is clearly not happening and I think the government should enforce this. However I believe a large amount of migrants are planning to work illegally. We really need to get tougher on this issue. Finally the most important thing we can do is support Southern European countries by putting more ships in the Mediterranean to turn the migrant boats back. I know these people are poor and desperate but the solution isn't to let a few come here. It's to make sure the vast amount of money we give in foreign aid actually does some good and doesn't just line the pockets of corrupt governments.

juneau I look foreign and I speak 3 languages, if you saw me in a doctors or dentists surgery you may think its unfair I am there. Yet I am born and bred in the UK and a high rate tax payer. I wouldn't need to quantify the amount of tax my husband pays, I work and pay my own.

I dont disagree with your viewpoint entirely, I live in the SE and it is very apparent that recent mass immigration has caused a strain on services. However, this country is my home and has been for more than 40 years, I don't like the creeping undercurrent of assessing whether people 'belong' based on the colour of their skin.

Sorry that should have been directed to Moreshabbythanchic

According to the telegraph the UK is nowhere near the highest number of immigrants using UN data

I see your point Poppy but how would you feel if after living here for 40 years you were suddenly denied medical treatment in favour of someone who has just entered this country and never contributed in any way?

juneau, "TBH I'm expecting a deafening silence, because liberal ideas are all very well, but how many Guardian-reading champagne socialists people actually want to put their hand in their OWN pocket? No one."

...or have migrants as neighbours?

(cleaners maybe, but not real neighbours, dear..not in this neighbourhood, it would drive prices right down)

More, I agree with you, DC was selling the Uk really well there. If I were hearing this and living in a country that isn't like this, I would want to come and live here too! I can see both sides to this argument. its a bit like a royal one I started a few months ago, 50 per cent saying they are great and the rest saying they are scroungers, a drain etc etc. there are no real answers, people don't want to pay more tax for facilities that will be drained by having more and more people living here. that's the bottom line, but its hard when others have a different point of view.
its just going to get worse. The NHS for one, who knows what diseases they have after being stuck on lorries for days on end? who is going to treat them all.?not DC that's for sure. ( or any other politican or EU leaders)

lem7 the problem with enforcing the convention that asylum seekers should claim in the first safe country is that you have to prove which country they travelled through to reach the UK. Unless fingerprints have already been taken by another authority, proving that they were there first, funnily enough other countries aren't so keen to take asylum seekers who just say that they were in eg Italy. And many just won't say how they arrived. What then?

And the vast majority of illegal immigrants will only claim asylum when they are picked up during other operations, not on arrival in the UK

Moreshabbythanchic Have you been denied medical treatment in favour of someone that has just entered the country?

Many come here to work and as they will be illegal they will likely do unskilled work for a pittance. They will be squashed into shitty substandard housing. This affects the communities in which they live. Not only will these communities become overcrowded but there is a public health hazard involved with people coming from Africa and the Middle East and then living in unsanitary cramped conditions. That's why the government must go after unscrupulous landlords and employers.

lem73, it all boils down to money, recourses and space. The uk is going through cut backs and austerity measures, how can it afford all the extra that's needed? who will go after the landlords and employers, the gang land leaders that leech from these people? the police? I know I have banged on and on about money in all my posts, but its the one thing I haven't heard being mentioned much by those in charge.

This is a very difficult situation which eventually needs to be handled with tact and sensitivity but for now the priorities are the safety of the migrants, the safety of the lorry drivers/holiday makers and port offiicials and to get the traffic moving again so some hard direct actions need to be taken straight away. I'm not sure if anybody else has said it but a few things need to happen:

1. Get the army involved
2. Intruduce a holding bay protected by the army on the french side for trucks and vehicles.
3. Use the man power of the army to check all vehicles properly for illegals before they board trains or boats - the truck drivers should not be responsible for this.
4. Use emergency powers to create holding bays for operation stack on the English side.
5. Round up all those living in the french camp and on the streets and place them in a holding centre and process them. Give them access, to food, water, doctors, legal representation. Those without papers get sent back to where they came from or rehomed (see 6 below)

This will send a message that we are not an easy target and hopefully will discourage many not to make the further leap accross Europe ending up in France to try their luck with the channel.

6. Set up a coordinated European Wide initiative to house and process (if only temporary) those ariving accross the Med into Italy and other nearby countries. Every country must take an equal share of the migrants. The processing of migrants and rehoming comes from a pot of money that all european countries must contribute equally to.

Yes I agree the robust action will cause an upraw initially but as soon as it is done and a clear process set up then it will be better for everybody. You have to break the seige in a hard way to be abel to see the way to remedy the mess. It is time for hard action.

6) Set up a coordinated European Wide initiative

because the EU is a world leader in coordinated initiatives ?

@Lurking - Yes I agree coordination is going to be difficult but that is the only way to sort it out.

Agreed the80s. I think this demonstrates why we need to get tough to prevent getting in in the first place. Illegal migration on a large scale has serious consequences for the rest of the population.

I am sorry but these illegal immigrants need to be stopped. We simply cannot accommodate them all,we have enough problems with our own people who refuse to work and expect every thing to be handed to them on a plate. Although I don't agree with the way Australia are treating them at least they are sending a stern message to these people that they will not accept those who do not follow the correct procedures. If we start to welcome them in with open arms and a soft approach we will only be infiltrated with more and more. It will not solve the problem. The root of the problem is their homeland.

Well, there are already a number of pan-Europe organisations and initiatives to deal with illegal immigration eg Frontex. But because the UK isn't part of Schengen, we don't get to call the shots (or even join in, in many instances).

I see none of the ID card advocates wants to answer what happens at the GPs when you can't produce a card.

Ironically, though being part of Schengen might give us more of a voice, it would've meant no problems in Calais, as the migrants would all be in Dover and we'd have to deal with them here instead. Schengen works better for Countries with land borders.

I see none of the ID card advocates wants to answer what happens at the GPs when you can't produce a card.

Personally, I have no problem with an ID card verifying citizenship for access to services.

However I have absolutely no confidence in any government to actually deliver this (how's that Universal Credit going, by the way ?).

Furthermore, there's no point in having ID cards, unless at the same time, you also give the state the right to (a) stop you and (b) ask to see your ID. I know from my grandparents where that starts and ends, and would rather not have it, if you don't mind.

I don't think that there are any "ID card advocates" on the thread, DadfromUncle, though some posters (like me) have mentioned them as one of the pull factors to why the UK is seen as a more desirable destination than many other European countries.

But for what it's worth, I don't think that you would have to produce an ID card every time you visited the GP, just when you went to register. Or maybe if your entitlement was time limited (eg you had a three year visa), you might have to produce fresh evidence of entitlement after that time period expired. That's how I would have run the system anyway!

And I agree re Schengen - personally I think that having less clout in certain discussions is a price worth paying for retaining control over our borders, though it does illustrate the point that everything has a downside.

Poppy yes, as I explained up thread I can't get a dentist, the lists are full due to an influx of immigrants in the area I have moved to. I have a tooth abscess and no chance of treatment. Might excuse my crabby mood of late!

And still no answer to my actual question - what if I can't produce a card? Everyone seems to be saying "well I wouldn't mind having to show my ID like a good little citizen", but not thinking about what to do with people can't (because they are illegal or refusniks) No medical attention except A&E? That would just load up A&E even more. Leave 'em to rot? Well we would end up having to treat them sooner or later, or clear up the bodies. ID cards are pointless bureaucracy in this context - do you really want the NHS wasting tkme and money on this?

There were people up thread saying we should have compulsory ID - but it is a totally ridiculous idea that wouldn't help.

And still no answer to my actual question - what if I can't produce a card?

Ok, what would you like to happen ?

First off, what does "not producing a card" actually mean ? What does the card signify ?

If it signifies that you are allowed to be in the UK, then it's fair to assume that not producing one means you are not allowed to be in the UK.

So what would you have happen ? Immediate arrest and deportation (to where ?). Presumably it's axiomatic that you can't access services (GP, benefits).

Of course, once you do have ID cards, you can micromanage your citizens lives. Imagine not being able to buy a newspaper without your ID card ? Imagine being arrested if you didn't check your window cleaners ID before paying him ? Or your gardener ?