To think the British government reaction to Calais migrants is pathetic?

[ribbitTheFrog]

It's like they're just putting their heads in the sand. Meanwhile people are dying, hauliers are being threatened, holiday makers having trips ruined.

I'd do the following:

Make clear any illegal entries will be turned back to France. Make clear there are not limitless jobs, housing etc in the UK. Make clear no benefits to new migrants (if this isn't the case then change the law).

Presumably the migrants think the UK has lots of money and opportunities, otherwise they wouldn't be risking their lives to leave France (a safe country).

Its not just the British govt that are doing a poor job but all EU governments.

I do think one poster up thread made a very good point, its all very well, those of us who live in our bubbles of relative wealth, we are insulated from the reality of overcrowding and mass immigration. Even in London and Paris, once you are not living in one of the affected boroughs, you are really not getting a taste of what its like to have huge numbers of immigrants dependent on the state living around you. It results in overcrowding, pressure on services and people no longer recognising the areas they live in.

My knee jerk reaction is that these people are being xenophobic and cant accept the reality of globalisation, but when I consider the reality what they are experiencing, I have more sympathy.

The migrants situations are truly horrific and there needs to be response where all EU countries take a certain number each year, the UK and France simply cannot bear all the weight

Try living in Newham amongst houses let out to 20 migrants, illegals living under radar expoitation , slavery, FGM , open defecation , overburdened services , disease , shanties at the bottom of gardens by the tens of thousand across the capital. People bringing and being exploited to live in near third world living standards in the UK a hundred years after we thought we'd banished this type of living . Too right that many MNers live in Islington or Battersea or Fulham in a bubble hand wringing about accepting and welcoming mores when the extremes of poverty and wealth in London grow by the day under their noses, ready to eventually explode. This reality is here and now. Work at a council in ones of these affected areas and you will see this terrible reality and growing crisis. Yeah right , lets import the bottom billion as they add such vibrancy and colour.

Tenieht...spot on.

I swear we need to have like... an anti-tourism campaign across these countries. Billboards, radio ads, posters etc. all explaining why the UK is not the ideal utopia they think it is.

OttiliaVonBCup Thu 30-Jul-15 08:07:02
"Most of them come here to work."

dont know if I agree with you here, unless you can back it up with actual facts, not rhetoric

what jobs are they trying to do? what about the ones who speak no english and have very limited qualifications? what do they do?

my 17 yr old has been trying to get a job and he has some qualifications and is struggling, so what chance do migrants have?

I think a lot of people sympathise with their awful plight, but the softly softly attitude has failed and we can't let these people come here, even if they want to work, as there aren't enough jobs/houses etc going round to accommodate them all.

Yes I have sympathy for these people as I do for those in our country. We don't have the facilities to take care of such a large number of people and are knee deep in austerity. I can tell you one thing that will happen is there will be more UKIP support.

shrimpy,. that would make no difference

the migrants know this is no utopia, no heaven on earth, but they know they will get a batter standard of life here through living illegally or eventually getting onto the benefits system than they will elsewhere

Even if they are coming here to work , is it practical to open the borders to an unlimited amount of young males ? Yes we can sympathise with their plight but they had the chance to settle in many countries before they reached Calais, so why didn't they? Are there really more job opportunities here ?

I swear we need to have like... an anti-tourism campaign across these countries. Billboards, radio ads, posters etc. all explaining why the UK is not the ideal utopia they think it is.

If I lived in a shit hole like Somalia I don't think all the billboards in the world would make me not want to get the hell out and go just about anywhere!

Tenieht exactly. All those advocating opening the gates to anyone who wants to come and welcoming them with open arms (the bottom billion FFS?? We only have about 65m here now and if you live in the SE, like I do, its already bloody crowded and the infrastructure creaking at the seams!), if you think the NHS, lack of affordable housing, pressure on schools and other public services is bad now, where the hell do you think this country would get the resources for millions more??? All of whom would turn up here with nothing and need to be provided with everything. Insanity.

Yes, we need to be sensible and humane, but we cannot take every person who wants to come here and neither can the rest of Europe.

Ssd, my point exactly. There are threads everyday from people that are working and struggling, having problems getting working tax credits or a decent place to live or living in sub standard accommodation. Trying hard to find work too. Yet, because of situations in other countries out of our control our government has to try to find housing and money for more people to live here. Will the EU give us more money? Will more houses be built?
Where will they live, oxford and chipping norton? I think not. Its a difficult situation and just going to get worse. I dont have the answers. I havent had to live in a tent in Calais or risk my life, but the government also need to look at the practicalities. Other countries are also,fed up with having to deal with it all. There isnt any answers it seems.

"The highest number of positive asylum decisions (first instance and final decisions) in 2014 was recorded in Germany (48 thousand), followed by Sweden (33 thousand), France and Italy (both 21 thousand), the United Kingdom (14 thousand) and the Netherlands (13 thousand). Altogether, these six Member States accounted for 81 % of the total number of positive decisions issued in the EU-28".

Eurostat: May 2015

Merrygoaround "the UK and France simply cannot bear all the weight"?

The UK takes significantly fewer asylum seekers than the above EU states, in particular Germany. Even France accepts half as many as Germany, and two thirds of the number accepted by Sweden.

In the case of migrants attracted to the UK, it is payback time, to some extent, for our colonial past, as the English language is one of the key draws.

payback from our colonial past, jesus fucking wept

so are you volunteering to take in a few migrant families Figmentofmyimagination ? do you live somewhere utterly overcrowded with the problems tenieht described above? or do you live in a nice leafy suburb that insulates you from the problems going on?

Even in London and Paris, once you are not living in one of the affected boroughs, you are really not getting a taste of what its like to have huge numbers of immigrants dependent on the state living around you. It results in overcrowding, pressure on services and people no longer recognising the areas they live in

Yes my knee jerk would also be xenaphobic until I lived in the realities of being out numbered by groups of people who are quite simply not adapting to UK life or values at all. That means all the points you mentioned but also anti social ( noise, unrination anywhere , sexist, disbablist, and so on.

There are threads everyday from people that are working and struggling, having problems getting working tax credits or a decent place to live or living in sub standard accommodation. Trying hard to find work too. Yet, because of situations in other countries out of our control our government has to try to find housing and money for more people to live here

Indeed and under Labour they were actually given priority over people struggling here all their lives who were British.

payback for our colonial past, jesus fucking wept

ssd I wasn't making a moral judgment - just stating a fact. If you listen to interviews with migrants, the English language is one of our main draws, whether you like it or not.

Interesting debate on five live radio today with Kent social services and people living next to a reception centre for the under 18s that are now living there. Some are being fostered, all of which takes time and money to administer and will need to be found suitable school places too for the really young ones. We may well be a rich country, but these services are already stretched and being cut back, how will they cope ? The lady on bbc breakfast from the refugee charity didnt have an answer to that one. Neither do i, of course, but if politicians are asked all we get is hot air and fobbed off.

To all those advocating an ID requirement to see a GP - what do you suggest should happen to people who can't produce their card?

For people who can produce the card, do you propose to do anything apart from a visual check to ensure the card is the right one or not a forgery?

To all of you thinking we should welcome all these migrants with open arms, and the many more that would surely follow such largesse, how much more tax would you personally be willing to pay to give these people the welcome you think they deserve?

I'm really interested to know, because its all very well paying lip service to your liberal ideas on an internet forum, but being so generous would cost this country a huge amount of money, money that would be needed to be raised from taxes, so how much of your take-home pay would be prepared to donate to house, feed, clothe, educate and give healthcare to these incomers and their families? Go on, put your money where your mouth is.

I was born and bred here, am 65yrs old and worked all my adult life. Recently moved to an area of very high immigration, went to register with a dentist to be told there is a waiting list. The waiting room was full of foreign people awaiting treatment.

So unfair, and soon to get worse.

juneau, they will probably tell you their husbands pay quite enough tax as it is, thanks very much.

My problem with universal ID cards, is that they are useless, unless the authorities (starting with the police, and ending with your local estate agent) have the power in law to demand to see it. At which point it does become "paperien bitte".

The previous opposition to ID cards never got as far as that objection, since NuLab had already doomed the project by insisting on the backend database to go with the scheme.

However, it is interesting that it seems nobody in a position of power has highlighted the lunacy of a system whereby citizens carry no ID, and immigrants are supposed to carry ID. Maybe we should tattoo them ?

Immigrants in the UK are "supposed to carry ID"

They have documents which prove their identity and entitlement to be in the country (and in some cases to work), which they may need to produce on request, but there is no compulsion to have them with them at all times.

Tattoo them?? You mean like the Nazis did with the Jews....

I have a friend in an EU country where you have to have an ID card. She doesn't carry it on her but loves being able to travel all over Europe with it instead of her passport.

I'm not saying them working here is necessarily a good thing.
Working on the black market, for cash, for a pittance, often fire the extended family or compatriots.
No access to training, unions, driving the pay down.

Having no incentive to integrate.

I think they want to work because illegal immigrants have no recourse to public funding, but I might be naive.

ssd

TBH I'm expecting a deafening silence, because liberal ideas are all very well, but how many Guardian-reading champagne socialists people actually want to put their hand in their OWN pocket? No one.