Use of the words abusive and controlling on MN

[SrAssumpta]

Recently there seems to be a surge in the dramatically unnecessary use of words like abusive and controlling on here and I really think I've become desensitized to it so I would imagine that's how real victims of abuse or people with genuinely controlling partners would feel too if they came on talking about their relationship, does that make sense?

A woman got told the other day she sounded controlling for making a meal plan ffs, I mean seriously? These words get thrown around now it's going to either lead to everyone thinking they're in abusive relationships or in fact controlling and the people who genuinely need to understand that their relationship isn't normal won't be able to see it because suddenly everybody is abusive or controlling.

'The annoyance at such words being carelessly thrown about is so that women in truly abusive relationships can really understand when posters on here try to explain to them that yes unfortunately the relationship is abusive and they would be best to leave. It's an entire thread discussing misusing the words in many many examples shown above, so can you please tell me how this thread is in any way a "kick in the teeth" to victims of abuse because I must say that's not the nicest thing to wake up and read when the entire point of the thread was to spare such words for victims of abuse'

I would be really interested to understand what you consider the definition of 'truly abusive relationships' SrAssumpta.

What makes this a really nasty and even dangerous thread, and a kick in the teeth to victims of abuse, is the continuous implying that there is such a thing as 'real' abuse. Apparently you are unaware of the old myths faced by generations of women that real abuse involves black eyes and broken bones. I think it is far better to get society used to using the right words for the range of abuse that exists -- it is all abuse even without broken noses, etc.

You do understand that people are allowed to disagree with you, right?

You think some of the relationship advice given out is wrong. Obviously others think is is perfectly appropriate.

It seems to me that what your annoyance boils down to is that you do not like it when people disagree with you.

Math....again rtft. We are talking about threads such as people being told their DH shouldn't be allowed to change what gym he goes to, because the OP doesn't want him to. Even though it will make life eaiser.

Threads where the OP is told they are being controlling for making meal plans.

We are talking about cases where it's very clear, it's just a relationship niggle. Which everyone has.

And yes I am questioning some advice given. Because it's downright wrong and, in some cases, ridiculous.

No one is denying abuse doesn't exist or that some people need that advice. This thread is saying some people automatically jump to that with no hint that's happening.

It's not saying people shouldn't give advice. It's saying that some people should think before they jump in.

I understand what in my opinion means thanks. Yet again, the people claiming a thread is attacking people, are the people doing the attacking. Questioning someone's intelligence, isn't big or clever.

'We' is the people on this thread you are claiming are attacking mners. I thought that would be clear. Not my mates, not sure why you would think that. Does that mean that you, AF and lewji are all mates? You all agree with each other. Never entered my head you only do so because you are all mates.

Math do you understand that people are allowed to disagree with you?

Because you are having digs at people who won't back down to you.

It's a thread about multiple threads concerning relationships, that questions advice given in general, where 'a small amount of posters' are being singled out for their contributions, and it is coming across to me even more than it first did as a concerted effort to pour scorn on the idea that relationships can be abusive and that partners can be controlling. Hence the absurd claim that people are 'throwing around the word abuse etc because someone has had one fall out.'

I think the key words here are "coming across to me" (emphasis mine)

Maybe you'd do well to acknowledge the fact that other posters see things differently, without having the malicious agenda you're accusing them of. Sometimes where some posters see abuse, others see a family row being blown way out of proportion. This doesn't mean they are denying the existence of abusive relationships. In the cases the OP was referring to, "abuse" and "controlling" have been used indiscriminately. Can you really argue that there was abuse in the cake buying thread, or controlling behaviour in the Camembert thread? Those are the kind of cases this thread was started to discuss.

Never once has anyone here said that abuse doesn't exist - the concern is that if the terms are used to describe things that aren't abusive, this could be damaging to women who are trapped in abusive relationships. Do you actually believe that it is helpful to them to see the cake buying man labelled as "abusive"?

Emphasis fail, sigh.

There is a range of abuse which goes far beyond broken ones etc, of course! No-one is denying at. But buying cake at the end of date that hasn't gone well doesn't fall within this range and to suggest that it does, is damaging to women who are being abused.

[ApplePaltrow]
"But the worst for me is the poor analogizing (especially on the relationships board)
OP: Last night I came in late and my husband hadn't done the dishes. AIBU to be angry?
Poster: Not at all. I know exactly how you feel. My ex-husband didn't do the dishes once. Later that night he shot my best friend and burned the house down. Call Women's Aid. LTB!"

How jolly it is to make fun of
(a) People who post their problems on Relationships.
It is a well known fact that most people who post there are not bothered by anything more than husbands not doing the dishes -- so well known that ApplePaltrow can make a little joke about the usual scenario.

and (b) People who post there to give advice, and posters who relate to their own experiences.
Yeah, because it is well known that people who give advice on Relationships are stupid and irrational .

[Spartans]
"We are talking about people who post mild whines about their relationships, minor things where no one is being abused!"

How are posts like that going to give someone the confidence she might need to post on Relationships about a pressing problem?
She could be excused for feeling that there are people here who are going to read her words and mock her or judge her behind her back.

You do understand that abused women tend to believe their problems are mild unless they have suffered horrible physical abuse and even then they tend to minimise it? And they also feel deep shame that they have 'allowed' the abuse to happen to them or fear that they to blame because they are creatures that nobody could ever respect? They don't want to take up anyone's time with their 'whining'. They are often reluctant to go to Women's Aid because they are so used to being second class citizens they don't want to take the place of someone more deserving than them, someone who is suffering 'real abuse'.

What makes this a really nasty and even dangerous thread, and a kick in the teeth to victims of abuse, is the continuous implying that there is such a thing as 'real' abuse

There is and buying cake and asking that someone heat some cheese up is not it.

It seems to me that what your annoyance boils down to is that you do not like it when people disagree with you.

That's completely untrue, I've actually stated numerous times that there have been great posts from each "side". I think it's rather unpleasant when a poster comes on so late in a thread to interrogate me and insult my intelligence when I have been but adds nothing to the actual discussion but annoyance would probably still be too strong a word.

Starling, that is exactly why I used the phrase 'coming across to me'.

I could have used the phrase 'coming across' but I chose to say 'to me' because I am well aware that this is my opinion.

This is not just about the cake thread or the camembert thread. That much has been clear from many posts, including ApplePaltrow's that I C&Pd. Plus all the refs to going NC, etc.

It is considered really bad form to start threads about threads, btw.

Spartans -- I am not 'having digs'. I am respectfully disagreeing with many (all?) opinions you have expressed.

I didn't realise there was a rule about when a poster may contribute to a thread, SrAssumpta.

My bad.

Would you care to define real abuse then, SrAssumpta?

[Starling]
'buying cake at the end of date that hasn't gone well doesn't fall within this range and to suggest that it does, is damaging to women who are being abused.'

It behoves me to point out that that is your opinion.

Two of your opinions in fact.

Math, surely it's your opinion that buying cake at the end of a date is abusive? Are people not allowed to disagree with you on that?

Personally, I agree with those saying that misuse of the words 'abusive' and 'controlling' in situations such as the cake incident is damaging. I don't think pointing it out is a kick in the teeth or having a go at anyone specifically.

Math - Questioning somone's understanding of English is having a dig. Question whether its my 'mates' that are agreeing with me is also having a dig.

I know far more about abused women than you may think.

Yes, I think taking a fairly small problem like the doing the dishes and relating it to a life threatening situation, is alarmist. No, I don't think it helps anyone.

I dont believe the PP was taking the piss out of anyone. I drive my car, I have been almost killed in an accident. I wouldn't relate that to any driving thread on MN.

The simple fact is that I think the over use of word like 'abuse' is damaging.

You don't think they are over used and/or think that even if they are, its a benefit.

We disagree. Its simple really. We don't have to agree.

However I am not having a go or making derogatory comments to you. I am not sure why you fell the need to.

Yes, it is my opinion. Is your opinion contrary to this? Do you think the cake buyi man was being abusive? Would you have said so on that thread? If not, then is thread is not about you.

And while TAAT are considered bad form, threads about a trend aren't.

And, for what it's worth, I suffered years of verbal and physical abuse from my father, and watched him mentally and verbally abuse my mum too. So I do have some idea of what abuse is. I even know what it's like to minimise the abuse I suffered because I didn't have broken bones, and it didn't happen every day. I still can see that buying cake at the end of a bad date isn't abusive.

But the way some posters react to minor relationship issues has made me cautious about venting when I've had a disagreement with my DP, because of the response I'd get, when I know it's just niggling things, and not controlling or abuse, because I have my father's behaviour to compare.

Hello everyone

Thanks for the reports about this thread. We just want to point out that dragging up someone's posting history on a new thread like this isn't really cricket, and we ask for a bit of peace and love all round.

Much obliged.

Oh please! I'm not sure it can be described as "dragging up a someone's posting history" when that someone repeatedly called for links from the thread in question, after misrepresented herself and others with regard to that thread, and calling other posters liars among other things.

What sparkling said.

The posting history was linked because one poster kept demanding it. It then turned out that she was the poster people were referring to.

That One poster kept saying that unless people linked it and proved what was said then they were liars.

That one poster kept on asking for other threads to be posted.

Bringing up posting history is bad form, but I don't think so on this occasion.

Hi there

Sorry, we missed that earlier post. However the peace and love bit remains.

Thanks Becky.

Most people have been peaceful and loving.

It is a cruical issue. If we say things which are mild are abuse then it makes those really abused in a sense short of a word to use or diminishes the word.

It is a cruical issue. If we say things which are mild are abuse then it makes those really abused in a sense short of a word to use or diminishes the word.

This reminds me of a similarly braindead argument about rape.