to ask why, if it's generally accepted to be the behaviour of a twat, do parents exclude a couple of kids from class parties?

[Chippedrippedandstinking]

Inspired by Lappy's thread, we all agree it's wrong and yet it happens. With flame amnesty, will abuone admit to doing it, and if so, why?
And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it?

I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.

Why Tiz? If you were having a party, and wanted to invite colleagues, would you limit it to either everyone or the magic "less than half"? Or perhaps only invite the women?

so there are exceptions Mehitabel6. On one hand I totally agree with you and children should not be excluded for nasty reasons, but then there is a fine line between excluding to be nasty and excluding because the child is just not wanted at the party. You cannot easily make the judgement as to which decision the parent is making. It often takes a severe personality disporder to exclude for spiteful reasons. Most people think they are doing the right thing, or have good reasons for what they do, even if those are not seen as good reasons in the eyes of others.

The school my children attend now allow parents to hold the party at 2pm in the classroom, but even those that don't will actually either invite only the boys/girls to their house or hire a venue and invite the whole class. It is actually considered extremely odd to start picking and choosing certain children and excluding an SN child or one that is extremely difficult (my five year old son has had a nosebleed, been pushed into the grass and is pushed regularly by one or two other boys, they do it to everyone) but they will always be invited to parties and when it's their party everyone is there, they are not a bullies but just difficult children who are going through tough times at home and they need to learn social skills. There is very much a "it takes a village" attitude to child rearing. This behaviour that my five year old faces is very very different to the emotional abuse that my older child experienced. So judgement calls are made based on individual circumstances.

The issue though is that the parent of the child who isn't invited is likely to see it as spiteful and not try/want/be able to see that actually there might be reasons unknown to them for not inviting their child.

maybe the child bullies because he has never come across any consequences that hurt-like being excluded from a party.maybe a salutary lesson is what is needed!
(BTW I find it a bit rich that it is the teacher in this debate berating parents for excluding a child.I bet if one of her pupils punched her in the face he would be excluded from school for a while! )

The problem with saying that it will "teach the bullying child a lesson" is that some of these children will not see it as a consequence of their bad behaviour, and neither will their parents. They will see it as bullying.

agree happy. I also don't feel it adds anything to the discussion to make snide remarks about someones ability to make sound judgements in their career for no other reason but petty point scoring.

tbh, Kids being excluded from things is also a life lesson (all things well with them and not those dealing with SN or a disability, I'll get to that)

Its one of those things kids will have to learn sooner or later. Not always being invited to a party/sleepover/play date or whatever is going to happen. It doesn't mean people hate them or that they have done something wrong. It just happens.

It can also be very damaging to kids to coerce them to invite everybody to a party. You are effectively encouraging them to be 'friends' and make do no matter what the other child's attitude is. We need to give children far more credit than we do so if they say I don't want A,B and C there. Do that, let them explain why and even if you don't agree be there to help deal with whatever happens after. 99% of the time it will be fine and kids tend to forget after a week!

Also, If a parent makes a big fuss about their child not being invited to the party... Meh. My party, my rules.

As for SEN kids and those with disabilities it really isn't unreasonable for all parents to make an effort to include that child. Even if it means the SNs child comes to the party a little bit earlier to spend time with the birthday child and leaves before it gets rowdy. That's still inclusion! Write a specific invitation for the SN child and their parent. Give a rough list of what you plan to do so they can prepare that way the mum of the SN child can get in touch and explaining if anything will be an issue, if there will be triggers for meltdowns or even if she wants to come too. It just shows you know there are difficulties and you give a damn about making it work.

The boy that showed up to my child's party was also SNs and the mother was incredibly grateful I had made the effort to a) not have any balloons (the bangs scared him) and b) make a birthday cake that was dairy free. It wasn't difficult. It just meant I had to grate a ton of butternut squash for the cake and make decorations from paper instead.

Now if everyone else had bothered to show up I reckon it would've been a grand party. Instead we raced to see who could open the 20 layers on the 2 pass the parcel presents I made. Chased bubbles from the prizes, flew a couple of kites and played in the park.

Of course there are exceptions. We are human. My only point is that if I could find a kinder way I would take it- and I would encourage my children to find a kinder way.

Very good post betty

The SN issue is important but people need to realise that not all parents know this info. The average 6 yr old is unlikely to know who in their class has SN and parents cannot expect schools to volunteer that information.

Again, this is why it comes down to parents and perhaps some are a little over involved. My DC has a friend with an obvious stammer. My DC never refers to the stammer except when she tells me that she told on another girl who teases the friend. My DC is unlikely to refer to her friend as having S& L delay, though this is the case.

Give the kids some credit, and as I said upthread, a little autonomy.

How many "your wedding, your rules" / "your child, your rules" threads to we have? And yet kids parties seem to be totally different!

EvilTwins exactly. I give a damn about who I invite into my house and that includes children I think and know to be mean/horrid little creatures who don't deserve a treat or my child's company until a major adjustment of behaviour is sorted. I am the same with adults who treat me like cr*p. Kids learn via example so how can we expect them to invite everyone then at the same time expect them not to tolerate bullying, bad behaviour or generally not very nice people?

as for SNs issue, a note at the bottom of every invitation 'if your child has specific needs please call/email' would go a long way. We do this to check if children have peanut allergies!

It happened to my son the other day, when the boy who lives over the road knocked on the door asking if son wanted a lift to x's party. That was a bit awkward.

I told son he can't expect to be invited to all the parties. Such is life.

Where's Chippedrippedandstinking ? This thread took on a life of its own

Really betty write a specific invitation and give the parent a list as a general rule? How patronising is that?
I've never gone to extra effort inviting sn children. I invite children. If they also happen to have any sn I've found their parents ask about anything that maybe an issue and we solve it that way.
I do know dds friend and her parents would be deeply upset at her being invited as part of a feel good inclusion policy, rather than for herself. As would many of the other parents whose children have sn that I know.
'The average 6yr old does not know who has sn'
Yes evil that's right. Along with many other things. Hence why young children aren't usually equipped to make unguided decisions about who deserves to be left out.

Still here sadwidow, watching with interest!

if I could find a kinder way I would take it- and I would encourage my children to find a kinder way.

Why?Why should they be kind to someone who is horrid to them? Do you really want your child to grow up being a doormat , thinking they have to accommodate people who mistreat them ??, or do you want them to have a bit of self respect and set boundaries?

Just like to add that I work in a school and it's very rare (though not totally unheard of) to have one child who is a total bully, hated by all, and 29 little angels. Most situations are much more complicated than that so please think carefully before you leave the hated bully out. Your perfect child may not be totally without fault either.
As for posters on here who refer to small children as poisonous little bitches ..........words fail me.

You are discouraging kindness Madam?

Yes. To people who who are horrid to you!

I think some people on this thread a are little over invested. I let my kids choose who they want to invite round for play dates. I let them choose who to invite to their parties.

I work full time and have no idea who, in their class, has SEN. I have no interest in whether the other playground mummies think I'm a prize bitch. The only say I've had in their party this year was that they were not to feel any obligation to invite the girl who has been being vile to them all year.

FFS, what's the problem with allowing a child a little control over their own social life? Am I a dreadful mother because their school playmates don't include an equal proportion pf boys, girls, ethnicities, religions and needs?

Lurkedforever1 its not patronising at all. Saying we will be doing this, this and this is not patronising. Many SN kids have issues around transitions and needing to know where they are and what's happening. Parties are unpredictable unlike school where the routine is set. Giving that information to a SN kid helps lower their anxiety especially about new places with unfamiliar adults. Not to mention if you have a disabled child who would need extra support for some or all of the party activities.

I say this because I am the parent of a SNs kid who is often left out because he doesn't socialise so well and is not on anyone's radar so to speak and having spoken to many parents in the past who have said 'I wish they would just ask us' or 'They weren't very helpful, we didn't know the plan so kept him home' its a common thing mentioned at the support groups. People do not think to ask.

Its not a 'feel good inclusion policy' its saying 'We know things like this can be difficult, I want to make it work'

You wouldn't feel patronised if someone wrote at the bottom 'any allergies please let me know' would you? it is the same thing. Understanding there are differences so accommodations can be made to ensure the wellbeing of a child.

I'm not over invested. Doesn't sound to me like many others here are either. There is a big difference between not exposing your DCs to overt bullying and encouraging your child to be friendly to others. Some SN, like my DC2s, are very subtle. Enough for a peer to pick out as different. I would always encourage my DCs to have a bit of time for those who are just a bit 'different' from them, whether they end up being close friends or not.

I am sad for the children of some of the self obsessed 'me me me' posters on this thread.

I don't want my DCs to be walked over, or bullied, or have no self respect. Of course I don't. But what I do want is for them to be kind, friendly, happy people who look for the best in others. I teach my DCs that yes, other kids can be mean, but that we don't lower ourselves to their level.

Maybe they will grow up as pushovers, but right now my approach seems to be working as they are thoughtful and caring to others, with good empathy.