to ask why, if it's generally accepted to be the behaviour of a twat, do parents exclude a couple of kids from class parties?

[Chippedrippedandstinking]

Inspired by Lappy's thread, we all agree it's wrong and yet it happens. With flame amnesty, will abuone admit to doing it, and if so, why?
And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it?

I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.

I agree with your last post itsmine

Karoleann obviously I can see why you acted as you did but I would be very wary of judging parents of reception age kids who can't manage their behaviour.

Sometimes it's not "won't" but "cant" due to as yet unknown issues.if a child was expelled at 8 I strongly suspect all was not well there.

itsmine

Fantastic post.

Fanjo

I agree and that is why reasonable adjustments (as you have posted) need to be made.

But the adjustments need to be a good balance for both children.

I think it also depends on the severity of what's going on. I would never ever exclude a child because my child simply 'doesn't like them', in fact I'd see the party as an opportunity for them to get to know each other outside the confines of school.

But someone upsetting them repeatedly no. And I think we must be careful - especially all those saying they'd invite the upset causing child - that the birthday child's feelings aren't invalidated, and that they don't get the impression that they have to tolerate someone hurting them.

I still see no need for full class parties though, but thats obviously just me ha

Also Fanjo I'd like to apologise. I still stand by what I've said to you, but I do realise that I perhaps could have put it better and/or been more polite and tolerant in how I spoke to you.

I do get get rather fed up Boney when you put in a superfluous point, which I answer, and then you make out it was my winning point when it has nothing whatever to do with the argument.
It has never had anything to do with my argument which is merely to not have 'pay back' time but to think of a kinder approach and if you can't have a whole class party, for obvious reasons, have a smaller party.

Thanks Grays

I see no need for whole class parties either.
You don't want to upset the birthday child by not supporting and protecting them (I wouldn't either) so I don't see why you deliberately want to upset the problem child- other than you want to get your own back. ( on a very young child who probably already has multiple problems- they are not born 'bad')

mehitabel You seem to think the invite is down to some revenge plot, it's not.

My responsibility is my own child. If inviting this 'problem child' is going to upset them and make them scared one their own birthday no less then my obligation is to prevent that.

I don't see why we should martyr our children. If you want to do that as an adult, if you want to invite someone into your social time who causes you distress and hurt then thats your prerogative, but to force your child to do so is ridiculous.

And where is the line drawn exactly. At what point is it okay to exclude them? My bully also sexually abused me at school by grabbing my boobs and vulva. Is that too far? yay, nay?

Mehitabel6

You have reposted about shoes three times as if it is some major point. I am purely pointing out that exclusion happens a huge amount of the time. Is that really "superfluous"?

On MN posters recommend going NC, or stopping children playing together, or excluding children from their house and other things a lot of the time.

"It has never had anything to do with my argument which is merely to not have 'pay back' time but to think of a kinder approach and if you can't have a whole class party, for obvious reasons, have a smaller party."

but that leads us in to the post by MadamArcatiAgain

"Please could you explain:

• why parents should tell the birthday child to forego inviting 8 of the children from his class, to appease his bully?

-Why should those 8 children miss out to spare the feelings of the bully?

-why it is a good idea for parents to model appeasing someone who is cruel to you?

-why parents should not empower their child to demonstrate that bullying them has consequences?"

This is of course taking in to account that the child is a bully.

Good post itsme

'If someone is deliberately hurting me or my child, I reserve the right to exclude them'

"Good for you std, let's hope every situation presents itself in such a black and white way."

It was in the case of the kids who bullied me and the ones who bullied ds2, itsmine.

And although I have posted openly about the bullying on my school's FB page, and tried to contact some of the bullies, none of them took the opportunity to apologise. They didn't even have the courage to contact me.

I mean itsmine.

I suppose the reality is that no parent is actually going to post that they excluded because their child didn't want to invite the socially awkward child.

Since mine are now adults - and very kind ones - I am very pleased that I brought them up to treat others as they like to be treated themselves.
I didn't put having a completely unnecessary whole class party in front of all else. I often think that whole class parties are about the parent. The child is never ever equally friendly with all the class. you can easily have the half they actually play with.
The only time they might want a whole class party is at the end of year 6 if they all get on well and are moving on. At that stage very few have them. The whole class is generally 4, 5 and possibly 6 and 7 yr olds - when some children are immature and haven't grasped how to get on with others.

Within reason though trying to understand why the other person is acting that way and see their point of view can never be a bad conversation. I don't mean just sn, but even pretty nasty behavior from nt children. I understand entirely why dd can't stand the spiteful and whining pfb in her class, and I don't expect her to be anything more than civil or expect dd to tolerate it. But in a child appropriate way we've discussed how dd and all the nice children would be the same if they were raised the same, so while she is right to hate the behavior she should pity, rather than hate the child. And when spiteful pfb is actually being nice, don't rely on it lasting but be willing to treat her nicely in return, rather than brooding on when pfb did x,y or z and how good it was when dd got revenge. Because when she grows up I want her to have an open mind and know in many cases you can disagree or even hate the action whilst also understanding the reason.

Sorry to go down a different route but...

'And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it? I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.'

If anyone tried to 'take me aside' on a decision we have made about our child then they would receive a one way feedback session on their level of entitlement! Honestly, where do people get the lady balls to do this. And I wouldn't give a flying fig about playground gossip! If people will stand and bitch about you because of decisions you've made for your child then they are not worth bothering with, as the old saying goes 'if they do it with you they'll do it to you'.

I would judge the child on who they are as a person. If they have ASD but we have sufficient interaction to know how to deal with situations then I'm more than happy to have them round, no problem at all (I would chat to the mum before hand to ask how to make them feel comfortable). If we're talking about the classroom bully then no, sorry. If it makes my child unhappy on their birthday, the bully's feelings don't trump the birthday boy/girl.

Clearly I am a shit person compared to some on this thread, but bullying has destroyed my life - I have lived with the damage done to me for over 36 years. It has affected my career, my relationships, my friendships, my marriage and my children (though I have tried not to let it affect them).

I have no self esteem, assume people don't really like me, have no confidence, feel like I have failed at pretty much everything in my life - all because of the bullying I suffered at school. I have depression, and will always have it, even when I am in control of it rather than the other way around, and whilst I am not suicidal or having suicidal thoughts right now, if I thought I could fall asleep and never wake up, I would be happy to do so. I would welcome death as a way out of my life.

And now I have to add the fact that I am a failure because I cannot be forgiving and accepting towards bullies, unlike others on here. I am almost crying.

Someone up thread made the analogy of working with 20 people and only inviting 19 of them on a night out-it doesn't really work here however as you are unlikely to be working with someone who threw a chair at you/stabbed you in the arm with a pencil/ stamped on your favourite toy and broke it/punched you in the face/threw your lunchbox over a wall etc etc
All of the above and much more I have witnessed in a mainstream school so it doesn't surprise me that parents feel strongly about not inviting the aggressor. I would not feel comfortable excluding only one child so wouldn't get myself into that situation by having a smaller party but, while not condoning it, I do see why some parents go down that route

Aww SDTG I am sorry to hear that.

You are clearly not a shit person in any way having read your sensitive and compassionate posts on here for years

I haven't read the full thread but I have always found threads about this utterly ridiculous.

My children are more important to me that anyone else's children. Therefore they are my priority and I don't give two hoots about some other child potentially being upset about not being invited to my child's party. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or a bit weird. Why would you place the happiness of some other child above that of your own?

I know for a fact that my DC have not been invited to various parties since they started school. It has never become an issue because I won't let it. If one of them mentions it, then DH and I deal with it in a very matter of fact way.

I am pretty sure this always matters more to the mother than the child.

STG please don't feel ike a failure.
All of us as parents are trying our best so that our children grow up as nice happy adults.
You have taken the decision you thought was best for your dc. That's what IS the most important thing of all.

I strongly suspect that people who are so adamant that regardless of what is going on you should invite everyone are just attached to appearances and to do 'the right thing'.
Except that it's not always possible to preserve appearances all the time. Not wo a cost to you or your dc.

You did the right thing.

SDT Please don't be upset I am very similar to you in regards to what happened with bullying so I can understand how you feel. You are not a failure, you are not a bad person.

If someone was punched in the workplace, or sexually assaulted, or called vicious names they'd want something to be done about it and they wouldn't give a flying fuck about the person's feelings. You wouldn't get people harping on about 'treating others as you want to be treated'. But we're supposed to expect children to put up with it, just because they're children? Bullying doesn't get any easier just because you know the bully has had a bad life or has problems. It makes you understand it more but it doesnt make the blows hurt any less, or the words mean less.

Don't cry x

Arghhh - stop being nice because that is making me cry!

I really appreciate the kind words.

Snice - re. The work scenario - you are right that you aren't going to be working with someone who repeatedly physically attacks you, but other forms of bullying are just as damaging. I have a friend who was psychologically bullied in the workplace, and now has severe depression as a result.

STDG I'm sorry you're feeling this way-have a and some and maybe leave this thread alone as its bringing up so many bad memories for you