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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to ask the sleep deprived, how the F**K do you do it?! Seriously.

341 replies

DangerGrouse · 22/07/2015 22:34

This is not a rhetorical question. I want answers and I want your stories. I am completely in awe/confused about people who function with sleep deprivation it utterly baffles me.
I have a two year old daughter who has always slept well and I am acutely aware of how lucky I am and I take no credit for this and I am not smug.
The night before last she had some random "hurty ear" and spent most of the night awake crying and wanting cuddles. So of course I spent the night cuddling her and dosing her up to the eyeballs with calpol and ibuprofen etc. Normal mumstuff. The night was of course awful - I was delirious and started hallucinating at one point I was so tired. Yesterday was consequently terrible and I felt physically sick and was grumpy from tiredness. From one bad night. In pretty much two years. And all I could think of was "HOW THE FUCK DO THEY DO IT?!" As in permanently sleep deprived mothers of non sleeping or ill children?
Seriously? How do you cope? What gets you through? Do you just accept it and deal with it, have a nervous breakdown or just live in permanent hate of your days and nights?
From one totally in awe mother to all of you sleep deprived warrior goddesses, I bow down and salute you.

OP posts:
Peregrin · 23/07/2015 15:54

To the posters who keep wondering about why not do CIO for the long term gain:

  1. As has been said above, if you believe it's cruel to the baby, it takes an odd sort of mindset to intentionally pick your child to suffer in order to ease your own situation. At least you have some comprehension of why you are in that particular hell, which your child would not have.
  1. When you are really in such a state that you can't even describe it as a mindset any more, and you finally leave your baby to cry beside you telling him/her to please just go to sleep, and they are still sobbing hysterically and begging for you one hour in, two hours in, three hours in... or as some posters mentioned above they vomit over themselves... you get a pretty good idea that this is not working.
MrsKoala · 23/07/2015 15:56

Oh and utter bollox to all those people who told me the 2nd child always fits in with the first and sleeps thru everything. Hollow. Fucking. Laugh. Ds2 seems to only want to nap when we have to go to ds1 pre-school, he won't sleep in the buggy or car, any slight noise wakes him. He has never slotted into our routine like promised.

I posted on another thread, only half joking, that my children to me are proof that there is no god - why on earth would anyone design children so rubbishly? They also have made me question evolution - how on earth could a species of these childcare survive, surely they'd just get left for a sabre toothed tiger by their exhausted parents? And wouldn't the constant crying alert predators? Nope, these children prove that reincarniction exists and I was a total arsehole in my last life. Grin

ChocolateWombat · 23/07/2015 15:58

What about the sleep nanny option? I realise that lots might not be able to afford it, but if it is about £1k I would gladly sacrifice the yearly holiday and lots of other luxuries too to scrape the money together to try it.

I suspect there are lots of people who will say they wouldn't consider bringing a stranger in to sort it out, or if it involved any kind of crying wouldn't be willing to try. And it is this kind of thing that I don't understand - that people can be SO exhausted as lots of you on here and in SUCH a state, that you still will turn away from possibilities that many say have worked.
In my mind, a seriously sleep deprived parent and a child who is sleep deprived too (and I have seen the behaviour both in and out of school from pre-schoolers and school age children who don't sleep) is a big problem. If a child did other harmful things to themselves and to their parents,mew wouldn't sit by and accept it as inevitable and something to simply put up with - we would act. So (and medical conditions and SN aside of course)if people havent given sleep training a serious attempt (either themselves or via a sleep nanny or similar) after long periods of sleep deprivation and feeling as crap as is described so graphically on here, I can only conclude that the sleep deprivation is depriving people of rational thought.

I understand that sleep training is emotive and requires a real commitment and courage which will be difficult to find if you are totally exhausted. I understand too that no one wants to hear their baby or child cry and finds it even harder if there is another who will wake up. However, there are lots of accounts on here of people who felt just like that and did sleep training and have changed lives. Isn't it worth trying - seriously gearing up for it and giving it a real go,with the expectation if success.

So it would seem to me necessary to first recover some strength (perhaps a holiday with partner or another adult, where both can sleep to recover strength.
Planning ahead - getting the sleep nanny in, or knowing exactly what the plan for sleep training is and deciding how long it is necessary to do it for and what the tricky points will be etc. The planning might also involve finding a way of getting the 2nd child and partner into another house for a while,so it can go ahead.
Launching the sleep training,whole heartedly and with an expectation of success - and if it is somethig you just know you can't do yourself, then getting someone else to do it, while you go away so you don't have to suffer it - can be a paid person or partner or relative or friend.

I think the really gearing up for it and planning, as if about to launch a battle is the key thing. It isn't a battle against the child or baby, but against the sleeplessness which really IS like an enemy attacking you, if you look at some of the terrifying descriptions of the impact it is having on people. If this really serious approach using family and then using a professional sleep nanny didn't work....then I might have to accept the sleeplessness......but until I had systematically done this and paid someone else to do it too, I really dont think I could accept the situation as so many on here seem to have, without having tried everything.

And I apologise, because I'm sure lots of what I am saying is hurtful to some of you who are so tired. I just hope that the encouragement given by people on here who were in exactly the same place as some of you and did manage to conquer it rather than have to live with it long term, helps at least one or two to find the strength to have another go at tackling it and to succeed with breaking what has a truly crippling and debilitating effect on so many of your lives. It would be just so fantastic if some of these methods which some people seem so resistant to trying could help move people's lives out of this unbearable phase.

thatsshallot · 23/07/2015 16:02

but Peregrin it did work for the long term gain with me, spectacularly well, I am just sad I didn't approach my GP and try it sooner, and then perhaps I wouldn't have got into such a mess in the first place.

I would never tell someone else to do it - but equally do want to balance out your post with a success story.

As I said before though, he was nearly 2 so it's a bit different to a tiny baby, and we did full on Ferber - so going in after 5, 10, 15 mins etc

blueshoes · 23/07/2015 16:03

ChocolateWombat, I find it revolting to have to gear up and meticulously plan and pay and enlist strangers to do battle with my own baby.

ChocolateWombat · 23/07/2015 16:08

You see, I don't see it as a battle against our children, but against the crippling effects of sleeplessness.
If I was faced with the choice of enlisting a stranger or living with the effects described so vividly on this thread, I would pay a stranger....and Inwould think I was doing it for the good of my whole family.
This I guess is where we differ - some people would rather go through the crippling effects of sleeplessness described here than enlist a stranger or a method they don't like the sound of - and of course, that is their choice. It simply wouldn't be mine. Everyone can choose - but it helps to know there can be a choice.

blueshoes · 23/07/2015 16:08

MrsKoala: "I posted on another thread, only half joking, that my children to me are proof that there is no god - why on earth would anyone design children so rubbishly? They also have made me question evolution - how on earth could a species of these childcare survive, surely they'd just get left for a sabre toothed tiger by their exhausted parents? And wouldn't the constant crying alert predators? Nope, these children prove that reincarniction exists and I was a total arsehole in my last life."

On the issue of god Grin I feel I have earned my place in heaven having brought up 2 non-sleepers. I feel no parental guilt despite being a FT WOHM. I have moved beyond "why me" to that exalted state of having come out on the other side.

People fleeing hostile situations have been known to dope their babies in the hope of not attracting gun fire to their group ...

MrsKoala · 23/07/2015 16:09

I think we are at the sleep training and getting a sleep nanny in stage with ds2. But for the last 6 months we've had lots of major upheavals and spent a lot of time visiting relatives so couldn't be consistent. Hopefully in a months time things will have settled and I fear, we may have to do something. More for ds2 than us. Ds1 was always happy in the day, so we just felt that was all the sleep he needed. But ds2 is obviously suffering because he is so tired. It feels cruel not to force him to sleep, even if he thinks he doesn't need it.

The other problem we have is in a 2 bedroom house the boys are going to have to share a room soon, so they really need to learn to sleep and let the other sleep too.

blueshoes · 23/07/2015 16:12

Chocolate, you can phrase it anyway you like but ultimately, the distress will be felt by the baby and so it IS doing battle with the baby to my mind. No amount of mental gymnastics and clever phraseology will get around that.

But to each their own. A parent knows their baby best. There are no prizes for martyrs in this. Although I did not CIO, it was the path of least resistance for me as I knew my babies and I knew they would not give up without a fight and lose something of themselves in the process.

LoadsaBlusher · 23/07/2015 16:12

lioninthesun
GrinChuckling at the part where you have only just stopped ranting about odd things... this is me exactly , I am so tired and irritable these days , I now rant about bins , parking , gardens , council section of local newspaper etc etc
I have no chat - only rants ...
I was never like this pre babies Blush

lentilpot · 23/07/2015 16:13

When my DS was consistently waking every 45 minutes - 2 hours (waaay past the newborn phase), it made me feel really tearful whenever people would say it's harder when you have a bad night when most nights you get to sleep through, but now my DS often just wakes once (in between a 10pm dream feed and his 5am wake up bangs head on desk), I do find I'm sooooo much tired after one bad night than I used to be. I think your body goes into survival mode and adapts to getting what it needs from shorter chunks of sleep. (I mean, sort of what it needs, I was a bit weepy ALL THE TIME and just had no energy left for taking care of myself or my poor DH once I'd ensured the baby was alive and happy and the few other things I HAD to do).

BellaBearisWideAwake · 23/07/2015 16:26

We did try sleep training. It didn't work because the problem was (reflux for DS1, a whole different thread, and) sleep apnoea. They both slept very lightly, woke easily, and had reduced oxygen intake overnight (sleep study). What cured that (literally overnight) was an operation to remove massive adenoids and tonsils. And I am so grateful to the ENT doctor who took this seriously enough to get us the sleep study.

I still have massive resentment over all the times I was told 'I couldn't have put up with that', 'have you tried XYZ', even when I know it was kindly meant. Wow, I thought I had let it go, but I haven't. After the second operation, I genuinely wanted to call up every person who had given me sleep advice to tell them it was a physiological problem and any amount fo CIO/CC/every other remedy was never going to work. But I didn't because I restrained myself.

The most helpful thing anyone did for me in those days was take my child overnight (once weaned) so I could sleep.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 23/07/2015 16:32

Mil tells a story about a neighbour who used to put a "drop" of sherry in her baby's bottle every night back in the late 70's. The bottle ran out some time around his first birthday so he'd had an entire bottle over a 12 mo period.

Gripe water was a thing when I was a child, given to fractious children. I didn't realise there was booze in it until I was an adult. I can remember dosing siblings with the stuff.

I had a shite maternity leave with a non-sleeping DD1. We hired a nanny when I went back to work at 6 months [or be made redundant so there was no option] and she was sleep trained in weeks into a fully compliant Gina Ford routine child. I worried about how it had all been achieved but they clearly adored each other. A) it made me feel like shite I couldn't do it myself but B) woke me up to the idea that perhaps sometimes it is just better to hand over your child to another adult who doesn't smell of milk, isn't exhausted and with whom your child will behave differently and change their sleep patterns as a result. A nanny isn't accessible to most people but a grandparent/aunt/sympathetic experienced other is often available.

I feel for people with children with real SN or other medical issues impacting sleep though. It must be hell on earth.

editthis · 23/07/2015 16:34

it IS doing battle with the baby to my mind

I never did sleep training really – I certainly didn't get anyone else in to do it – as I'm more of the It Will Work Itself Out school of thought (which it pretty much did, first-time round, eventually).

But, blue, is it really doing battle if the child is fed and warm and cuddled, albeit by a stranger perhaps, and simply being taught to sleep at night, for longer periods? You might say yes, of course: we are all entitled to our opinions, but there is no definitive RIGHT, surely.

I certainly don't mean to contradict you, but I do think it is important for a child to be taught these things when they, too, need a sustained period of sleep in order to function properly and develop.

But, mainly, it was assertions like yours (and terminology like doing battle with your baby) that stopped me from taking any action against the night wakings, in horror that I would be damaging my child in some way. These thoughts loom large in the wee hours.

KinkyDorito · 23/07/2015 16:36

Eat - seriously, just eat, eat, eat. It's like my body needs energy from sleep, but I can't sleep, so I eat instead. I am very overweight!

editthis · 23/07/2015 16:36

P.S. The problem with hiring a professional is that I found their sleep patterns change ALL THE TIME. Surely you sort it out, then they get ill or something or have a growth spurt and it all goes to shit again??

tanhuayixian · 23/07/2015 17:14
Smile
girliefriend · 23/07/2015 17:29

Not rtft but I wonder this as well, I need a good 8-9 hours of sleep to feel normal and if that is interrupted I feel anxious, tearful and often end up being sick!

When dd was a baby I used to struggle but somehow coped with her waking up however she was quite a good sleeper. I also knew that I would do as much as I could to get her to be a good sleeper so she had a strict bedtime routine, blackout blinds, soothing music, dummy and I did cc from 5 months ish. Its impossible to judge if the fact that she slept well was from anything I did but I personally feel they all helped.

I get that cc is a contentious subject on here but for me it was worth 10 mins of crying for a good nights sleep!

blueshoes · 23/07/2015 17:32

editthis, I am not saying it will damage your child, only that it would damage my child. You have to make up your own mind.

Being warm fed, cuddled is irrelevant if the baby you are comforting is bawling their eyes out for something else whilst you are standing there or not. Tell that to my baby.

LostMyBaubles · 23/07/2015 17:36

Like others say you get used to it.

By time ive finished doing ds cares and meds, feeds etc its 12/1am takes me a while to get to sleep and then im up for 6 most days to start it all over again. Dont have time to sleep during the day. If we go out in the car dh will drive so I can nap.

On a bad night could be up at leaat 4x with ds1 who is 5, has sn and lots of health problems. .thankfully ds2 Nd ds3 are good sleepers

LostMyBaubles · 23/07/2015 17:38

Just read kinkys post that's a reason why im overweight too. Like im compensating that way

griselda101 · 23/07/2015 17:59

i hated it, made me grumpy, depressed, PND, permanent rings under my eyes. had to soldier through but not without seriously hating mostly every minute of the first couple of years.

lived on toast (carbs!) and coffee. A glass of wine in the evenings helped!!

Thank god it's over now.

Bumpsadaisie · 23/07/2015 18:34

I think a lot depends on what KIND of non-sleepers they are. My youngest is not far off four now, and I'd say its only since he turned 3.5 that he has slept through pretty reliably. So add in my eldest (who wasn't sleeping through herself before my youngest was born) and really that is getting on for six years of poor sleep.

However it was never horrendous. My eldest slept through from when her brother was about 6 mths old (tho she needed a lot of hand holding to settle herself to sleep).

My youngest was great at lying quietly and dozing off to sleep himself once he had had a feed and cuddle. However if he woke in the night the only way to get him back to to sleep was to do story milk cuddle and song all over again. Of course it was a pain to get up for 15 mins once or twice a night and do this, but at least it WORKED and I could think to myself "I just need to do this then he'll go back to sleep". So I did feel it was under control.

If he'd been howling for hours unconsolably I don't know what I would have done.

DangerGrouse · 23/07/2015 18:54

Chocolateswombat I completely agree with you. Sensitively and articulately worded and made total sense. I agree given the horror stories on here it's surely crueller to the child to at least not explore the option of sleep training rather than growing up with an angry, ill and tearful mother.
Again this doesn't apply to people who have at least tried. I'm not saying it's easy by any means.

OP posts:
KinkyDorito · 23/07/2015 18:55

Carer's affliction lost - seeking out carbs to get over the tiredness. It was pointed out to me a couple of years ago when I couldn't understand why I kept binge eating pasta/sugary foods. It's because I'm so tired all the time. Easier than trying to make time to sleep. I mainline caffeine too.