AIBU re gender neutral expectations?

[SrAssumpta]

When I was pregnant with DD I was a bit of a gender neutral nazi, it was all very well intended but perhaps a little obsessive and my desire for a gender neutral world for children seemed to produce an intense dislike for typical "girly" toys etc.

DD is 4 now and although I don't ever recall actually saying anything negative about the typical toys geared towards girls, it's definitely rubbed off on her and while I'm so proud of the little person she's become, I can't help but notice that she seems to think she should be choosing Batman over Barbie, pirates over princesses etc. I would have really liked to see what her preferences would have been had I not put such emphasis on gender neutral everything?

I heard a conversation the other day two women saying how the pink bikes with ribbons make them sick and raving about what little tomboys their girls are, but this is still seems like putting expectations on the children? It actually makes me cringe how much importance seems to be placed on girls not liking girly things nowadays and I think it's gone from gender neutral to anti typical girl?

Provisionally, you are quite right in my opinion about manufacturers deliberately creating a boy/girl divide in order to sell more toys and especially more clothes. If you look closely at a girl's item of clothing that at first glance appears gender-neutral in terms of colour or motif, you will almost always find a little heart or flower embroidered on it somewhere. Ditto, the motifs on an astonishing proportion of boy's t shirts and pyjamas feature sharp teeth or bones or something else that will put girls who might be happy to wear something with a train or a car. Similarly the colours of boys' clothes tend to be slightly muddy - a bit of brown mixed in - to make them more "masculine". The irony is that the colours in the actual grown up menswear department actually tend to be significantly brighter and clearer.

Baby wearing always creases me.

I don't really get AP. I mean 2 of my babies hated cuddles and being held close.

How on earth can you choose how to parent a baby unless you know what they like?

ds1 still holds a grudge I sent him to dancing when he was 4, maybe he'll be on AIBU here soon

I remember DS2 had a High school musical t Shirt in Year 3 so I would have gained a point for that. Plus he had a doll's buggy. No doll though-Florrie Fimble.

you mean you've got 2 kids who aren't alike, miaow?

same as most of us.

It's not only on MN, though! I remember the peak of DS's "pink phase" as he donned pink hat and mittens at nursery. One of the dads doing pick-up just grinned and said his DS loved pink too. Said dad was in his camo fatigues, having just come from his job as an instructor on the local army base.

But I do get what you're saying, OP. I had an interesting conversation with one of DS's school friends (aged about 6 at the time). They'd been climbing trees together, and she solemnly assured me that she only liked doing boys things because girls things were a bit rubbish. And it struck me as really sad that she'd got all these negative connotations about being a woman. I tried, and probably fumbled, a version of the answer I usually give DS - there aren't boys/girls toys/activities - there's what you like and what you don't like.

It's important to remember that there are toys traditionally thought of as girls' toys which are bloody brilliant - dolls houses, for instance. And that girls don't have the monopoly on crap toys (I see you Bratz Dolls and raise you those ghastly little plastic characters who live in dustbins - I dislike them so much I have erased their brand-name from my memory).

womans brains distinguish colours in the red/pink range with far igher definition than mens.

It has been shown that even female monkeys show a marked preference to these colours compared to male monkeys.

That the trouble with a lot of feminist stuff, it undermines itself by totally disregarding biology.

I dont give a crap ehat toys my childrrn play with. They ask for a toy and thats what they get to play with.

My dd loved cars and dolls as a toddler. She grew out of matchbox cars but loves dolls still at 5.

My ds couldnt care less about cars and never has. He is dinosaur obsessed. He is 3.

They sometimes wear matching tops. they frequently choose their own clothes. He used to dress up as Rapunzel but no longer cares for dressing up.

I honestly do not understand why people have such a hatred of certain colours. It is a colour. Colours are not bad. No colours are better than other colours.* People who dress their girls in head to toe pink are no worse than people who are constantly campaigning against the colour. Fgs get some perspective.

*unless it is that you suit one colour and dont suit another. Or women wearing red shoes during the day

Source for that assertion, please, totallybewildered (together with sample sizes, measures of statistical significance and d-values for the differences between the two populations). Otherwise I'll simply take your "science says" as an appeal to authority.

Dd likes pink. Actually peach is her favourite colour at the moment.

I cant give a shit about this gender neutral crap. I'm due dd2 and will be pulling all dd1 old pink stuff out.

When she's a teenager wearing only black and no dresses l suspect l'll look back on this time fondly.

There is so much real shit to worry about with dc that this stuff doesn't even rate for me.

I don't see the campaigns about banning "girls toys" or "pink toys" or "girls clothes" etc. it's just why do clothes and toys have to be labeled "girls" or "boys". It obviously does affect or limit children's preferences because most girls do seem to like pink and most boys don't. Unless you believe those are natural differences and girls are born liking pink?

Ha ha Ssd and sadly they get more expensive not less don't they?

Mine were laid on their tummy in 89/90 to sleep as that was the parenting advice of the day.

Says it all really!

People aren't campaigning against the colour pink. They are campaigning against pink=girl.

That the trouble with a lot of feminist stuff, it undermines itself by totally disregarding biology.

Okaaaay then.

We do have the same problem for boys, but its a slightly different problem. I don't want to be inundated with blue and beige for my small men, and the tractors/cars/diggers/army motifs piss me off too. The blue for boys is an issue just like the pink for girls is.

But a side issue that its not only ok, but admirable, for girls to be put in "boys" clothes or colours (not that I think they are for boys, but you know what I mean) but also a trend for girls to be given traditionally boys names and activities etc. And thats all grand and good BUT it doesn't be done the same the other way. You can call a girl James but I don't see any boys being called Sarah or Lily. Girls can be dressed in blue with diggers but boys aren't generally going about in tutus and pink tights.

If we're serious about gender neutral then concentrating on girls and pink is missing a huge part of the issue. Gender neutral for all, not just for females. Girls are allowed to like pink and princesses, boys are allowed to like blue and cars, but they ALL need to not be pushed towards either these things OR their opposites.

'But a side issue that its not only ok, but admirable, for girls to be put in "boys" clothes or colours (not that I think they are for boys, but you know what I mean) but also a trend for girls to be given traditionally boys names and activities etc.'

Yes, if a girl want to do cross stitch or collect stickers of butterflies and kittens that's fine. Cricket and rugby aren't necessarily superior pursuits for a girl.

Pink is not the problem. Limiting children's choices because of gender is the issue here. Toys and clothes are not inherently boy or girl.

I disagree that it's not worth discussing because there are more important things to worry about. If that were the case then nothing other than world peace and curing cancer could be discussed.

I see that this thread has become an excuse to have a dig at baby led weaning, baby wearing and attachment parenting too.

Good post Urethra. I for one am pretty fed up with apparently well meaning uncles constantly trying to encourage my ds to watch/ play football because 'all boys like football'. Actually, this one doesn't. Why should I feel the need to contradict these ridiculous statements by continually making ds aware that there is Another Way if he likes/ chooses it.

I hate to see feminism so badly misrepresented.

As cailindana said near the start, "I have never once seen any feminist say girls shouldn't like pink or having a go at anyone for liking pink"

It's missing the point. The point being, don't limit children with pink=girl

oh god yes they got so very expensive!!

culture, what's baby wearing? is that when you carry them about cos they cry if you put them down?

no, I think that's just called parenting?

baby wearing = using a sling or similar.

thats the same thing, no? why would you put them in a sling and carry them around if they are quite happy to lie on a mat?

totallybewildered sorry, are you genuinely suggesting that women have a biological preference for pink?!?!

Because you want to?