AIBU re gender neutral expectations?

[SrAssumpta]

When I was pregnant with DD I was a bit of a gender neutral nazi, it was all very well intended but perhaps a little obsessive and my desire for a gender neutral world for children seemed to produce an intense dislike for typical "girly" toys etc.

DD is 4 now and although I don't ever recall actually saying anything negative about the typical toys geared towards girls, it's definitely rubbed off on her and while I'm so proud of the little person she's become, I can't help but notice that she seems to think she should be choosing Batman over Barbie, pirates over princesses etc. I would have really liked to see what her preferences would have been had I not put such emphasis on gender neutral everything?

I heard a conversation the other day two women saying how the pink bikes with ribbons make them sick and raving about what little tomboys their girls are, but this is still seems like putting expectations on the children? It actually makes me cringe how much importance seems to be placed on girls not liking girly things nowadays and I think it's gone from gender neutral to anti typical girl?

About three years ago I was at a big Brownie event. Probably around 2000 Brownies in waterproofs and wellies. Seriously there were less than a handful not in pink or purple!!

So? If they all chose their own and were happy with them, what does it matter? Maybe the majority like pink and purple

I hate pink. I just genuinely don't like it.

4yo Ds, on the other hand, was asked yesterday what his favourite colour is and he replied confidently 'pink!' The girl replied 'but that's a girl's colour!' The girl who said this was wearing a blue dress so I sort of teasingly said "so is your dress a boy's colour?" While I agree that kids should wear whatever colour they want, I do sort of feel it's my duty to question gender sterotypes. Ironically ds owns lots of clothed of different colours - but not pink!

I think childhood is far happier and less stressed for all concerned when parents prioritise what is really important and what is not.

A gender neutral childhood sounds pretty dire to be honest.

No one in RL gives a toss about stuff like this. Only on mumsnet.

Do you HONESTLY believe peer pressure hasn't come into it?
The same peer pressure that directs boys away from pink.
In your OP you said you felt you'd influenced your dD away from girly things by being a "bit of a gender neutral nazi" but then you doubt that the same pressure works in reverse multiplied by all of the powers of marketing?

I think you are right to recognise that you went too far. My dd has always loved the colour green, played with toy cars and is usually filthy from climbing and playing outside. However, recently she has shown an interest in wearing beautiful dresses and doing makeovers. I loved the fact that she defied convention and moved away from girly stuff but, I also want her to find her own personality. For the most part, I want her to know that she can be and do anything she wants and not allow her gender to define her experience of the world. Try reintroducing choices and show her that you support both options.

It's a all a bit of a none issue surely, and I think OP is right in the fact that there is no "achievement" in having a girl choose batman over barbie (if that if the result of mum's disapproval of barbie).

I knew I and to say I did not like barbie, or make-up or girly stuff when I was young. And I wore blue mainly, and had short hair. (this is way back in the 70s).

I knew my parents would disapprove of all those "girly" and "commercial" things, so I pretended not to like them.

It was not a sad childhood, I was happy with playmobil and trains and cars! . Just mentioning it.

But yes, kids often want to please their parents and know what the "right" anser is.

museumum wet weather gear in our local Beavers/Cubs/Scout group seems to be fairly uniformly gray/navy/black I'm afraid.

No 'sea of colour' here and it's a terrible naice area where Boden and Joules are firmly entrenched.

Maybe the majority like pink and purple

You said in your OP that you felt your original POV of wanting things to be gender neutral had influenced your daughted into preferring Batman and pirates over Barbie etc. What if all the Brownies choosing pink or purple wellies have also been influenced, but in the opposite direction?

I think the problem is that it isn't really a free choice in either direction. Girls aren't just genetically wired to like pink; 8 out of 10 girls preferring pink is clearly the result of some pretty strong social and cultural influences. But then again, as you say, having an aggressively gender-neutral line can result in an equally 'un-free' choice by a child not to like pink...

From my experience it tends to be the more expensive shops that have a better variety of colour and style in clothes for girls. Many of the cheaper stores and supermarkets tend to be sparkly, pink and covered in bunnies.

Of course a lot of the boys clothes are mud coloured with cheeky monkey/trouble slogans.

I would rather clothes and toys were just set out by type rather than by gender. Then perhaps some of the brownies would have said actually I would like the jacket with the lion/dinosaur/tractor on rather than the fairies/bunnies/frozen ones.

I am so glad I only found MN in 2011 when my children were 12 and 9, I never gave any of this a second thought, I just let them be and to choose whatever they wanted in whatever colour they wanted. They could play with any toy they wanted too. YY to 'only on MN'.

agree with sb ^^

same as the baby led weaning nonsense, I dont know how my 2 ever managed to eat without it

I exist in RL as I do on mn though Ruledbycats and I do care about gender stereotypes. If ds wants to wear pink and go to ballet lessons then I bloody well want to make sure he doesn't get bullied for his choices! I am sick to death of hearing stuff that sounds very much like "oh but that's a girl's colour/ hobby/ game - football and dressing up like a builder is much more manly".

Isn't it amazing that all these girls just by coincidence all like pink. What mean mummies feminists are for constraining their choices by suggesting that this just might, possibly be because of social conditioning not an innate appeal of the colour.

I let my dd choose pink things if that's what she prefers but I am completely aware that there is a strong chance these preferences are shaped by peer pressure and advertising and I do think it is a bit limiting.

Also there was a post above that said something about the things being sold obviously reflecting preferences as otherwise shops wouldn't make a profit out of them and thus wouldn't produce them. The thing is it seems to me that 'the market' doesn't just respond to preferences, it deliberately shapes them. If Lego, for example, can convince enough parents (and, indeed, enough children) that DDs should have their own, girl-specific lego, rather than sharing their brothers, then that's a profit to them. The same with baby clothes.

My two never had 'tummy time' ssd. Ds1's GCSE results are out next month. If they aren't good I will know why.

what's tummy time? ( we are awaiting results too!)

I think it's a bit like feminists saying in one breath that girls should be allowed to be who they want and think how they like (something I totally agree with) and then in the next breath having a go at people for liking pink or giving anything vaguely pink to their daughters.

I don't think that's it at all. I think the objection is to the proliferation of pink to the exclusion of other colours. Pink is fine but do we really need boys' Lego and girls' Lego and boys' Kinder eggs and girls' Kinder eggs etc. etc?

It's so regressive.

I hate to be a know it all but all these parents of young kids worrying about the fact their kid likes blue/pink/tartan/whatever really dont have a clue whats going to hit them when they have teenagers

Yep agree ssd and sparkling if I had had mumsnet back in the 80s when I had babies I would have been paranoid about everything from baby wearing to weaning to sleeping in a cot and what ever the fuck is gentle parenting.

Thankfully I just did what seemed right for us and mine turned out fine.

As for gender neutral well that's hilarious.

ssd stick the baby face down I think. Something to do with developing quicker. Too late for us now, although as I type DS2 (13) is on his front on the sofa playing PS4.

YY to the teen years being a free for all colour wise.

attatchment parenting, theres another one for you, WTAF is this?

why does everything need a label, isnt life difficult enough without bothering about whether wee johnny wants a pink football?

Oh we waiting GCSE results too in August.

Yes what's tummy time?

My oldest ds was a goth and ds 2 was an emo. both fairly conservative dressers now.

I honestly can't remember any of their clothes choices as children now. Just brought cheap second hand mostly. We didn't have the money for clothes angst.

sb, my 2 are both on their fronts in front of the ps4, they must be feckin geniuses!

I am lol that the previous anti-pink campaigner now believes that all girls like pink innately.
Hilarious.
Ds1 was ousted from ballet in y2 by his female peers regularly sneering and asking what he was even doing there, as ballet is for girls.
Cinderella Ate my Daughter is pretty balanced on the subject, for anyone who is interested, and not just hopping on the bandwagon for an anti-feminist 'only on mn' bun fight.

mine were always in hand me downs ruledbycats