to think nearly all the mums I see are bottle feeding?

[newmumma2015]

Not judging those who can't breastfeed but when taking my new born out the past 3 months I've only seen one other mum breastfeeding. Are you all hiding?

Donated milk wasn't an option and I was recovering from surgery and couldn't express so actually yes formula saved his life. It's a real shame that there's so much judgement on here about formula. The aim is to feed our children and keep them happy and healthy, whichever way works best for our own particular circumstances.

Formula also has benefits to mother and baby.

It keeps the child fed and (presumably) the mother happy with her choice.

But we all know that. It's daft to suggest that low breastfeeding rates aren't a concern. But what good does it do, to preach to nervous mums-to-be and failed breastfeeders about it? It isn't going to make the Magic Milk Fairy restore our boobs to their lactationy glory. It isn't going to magically give us babies that latch straight away (or at all), or midwives who will actually take the time to look for tongue and lip ties.

All it does is create a bigger divide between formula feeders and BF advocates.

I think a lot of posters are being deliberately obtuse on this thread.

Lashes a woman deciding that FF is best for her is irrelevant to Bf rates at population level, as I said in my previous post.

Crafts my point is that if a large enough group decide formula is the better option for them, providing it's INFORMED, what is the problem?

I sometimes think that the UK has completely lost its breastfeeding culture and knowledge, as formula feeding is far and away the majority decision. I wonder whether money should be stopped to all breastfeeding initiatives. Instead just spend it on post natal support generally, as its really clear that culturally and socially, women in the UK en masse choose not to breastfeed.

What do you mean a large enough group? So if say, all women who had babies this year decided to formula feed?

The problem would be the loss of benefit to mother and baby from breastfeeding in that group.

Not sure how else it can be said.

What 'loss' though?

If a mother chooses freely to FF then she's lost nothing.

If the baby is healthy and thriving, then the baby's lost nothing either.

Crafts, what worra said

Worra, would you say that there are no proven benefits of breastfeeding to the mother or child? So formula feeding is exactly equal to breastfeeding?

Or do you mean that in the circumstances where a woman chooses to formula feed, those benefits are outweighed by a more serious negative associated with breastfeeding in this specific instance (such as not being able to take medication or similar)?

BF women can reduce their risk of breast cancer. So if they FF they lose this.

Bf is proven to reduce the risk of childhood obesity. A child who is FF loses this.

Isn't it obvious when something has benefits and you don't do it you lose those benefits? Individual examples are meaningless. We're talking about the whole country here. That's why the NHS treats Bf as a public health concern.

I feel like you're taking the piss a bit because this is all so obvious I feel like a dick typing it.

Agree that you have to be pro-active for the breastfeeding support, and look into where to find it yourself. I didn't feel that where to go for support was well advertised by the midwives / Health visitors.

And while support is out there, the support isn't always easy to access when you need it. DS2 went on a nursing strike when he was about 5 weeks old which started on a Thursday. At the time I didn't know about the local LLL branch. The midwives wouldn't help because he was too old. The HV team said that there wasn't any breastfeeding support available on weekends, but they could get a breastfeeding support worker out to see me on Tuesday, which seemed like far too long to wait when DS2 was clearly hungry but refusing to feed. Fortunately DS2 decided to start feeding again before we reached crisis point.

Crafts,

But if every woman has looked at the evidence (the obesity one is debated, by the way) and decided that for her, formula feeding has more benefits, then what is the issue?

It's like weighing up nursery vs childminders. Each one has specific benefits and specific advantages, so while you might lose the benefit of antibodies in breast milk, you would gain the benefit of being able to share feeds for example.

So you haven't lost anything - you've simply decided which benefits you prefer.

There are no proven benefits whatsoever to a mother breastfeeding a child, if she would really rather choose formula.

Proven benefits to the child are sketchy because as soon as one report comes out 'proving' it, another comes out saying either the opposite or that there is a minimal difference.

So with that in mind, I really don't see a problem and I certainly don't think it's worth anyone getting het up over it.

Ok, I can understand where you're coming from on this.

So presumably you would agree that spending any money on breastfeeding initiatives is wrong, as there is no benefit to mother or baby. Money could instead be spent on general post natal support.

BF women can reduce their risk of breast cancer.So if they FF they lose this

Can being the important word there. There is obviously no guarantee.

Bf is proven to reduce the risk of childhood obesity.A child who is FF loses this.

A child will nearly always lose this anyway if they're fed a poor diet and not given enough exercise.

1 in 5 four year olds are starting school overweight/obese and the figure jumps sharply when they're leaving school, aged 11.

So let's be honest, it's not all about breast feeding.

So presumably you would agree that spending any money on breastfeeding initiatives is wrong, as there is no benefit to mother or baby. Money could instead be spent on general post natal support.

I haven's said there's no benefit to mother and baby.

What I'm saying is, how ever a mother chooses to feed her baby will benefit them both.

I think money should be spent on general post natal support, yes. This will benefit both breast and formula feeders.

But as far as I'm aware, this is already how it's being spent?

Of course there is no guarantee.

This is going round in circles. With respect, you don't know as much about breastfeeding as the NHS

Sorry posted too soon.. And if they're happy to promote breastfeeding at a national level that's good enough to tell me it's needed

Crafts so you're not willing to do your own research or accept that people make rational choices?

wow. it makes me sad how we're all trying to be the best mums and role models but hating each other over something as short lived as how we choose to feed in the first year/few years. Both methods rock. I know it's an emotional topic but I wish people were a bit more tolerant before jumping on the attack.

Well I'd hazard a guess that no-one on MN knows as much as the NHS

I just wish people would accept that some women do things differently to other women, and stop making such a fuss about it.

Women have more say in how they choose to give birth

Women have more choice in whether to stay at home or go back to work

Women have more choice in how they feed their babies.

All of this is a great thing imo, but there will always be people who will point the finger, to make themselves feel superior about their own choices.

Meanwhile, there are lots of happy, healthy babies being BF and FF out there.

Instead just spend it on post natal support generally, as its really clear that culturally and socially, women in the UK en masse choose not to breastfeed.

But that isn't the case, is it?

Looking at the most recent stats (2010 Infant Feeding Survey):

"The prevalence of breastfeeding fell from 81 per cent at birth to 69 per cent at one week, and to 55 per cent at six weeks. At six months, just over a third of mothers (34 per cent) were still breastfeeding."

As for why the figures drop like that:

"The most common reasons for stopping breastfeeding in the first week were problems with the baby rejecting the breast or not latching on properly (27%), having painful breasts or nipples (22%) and feeling that they had ‘insufficient milk’ (22%)."

So these are women who chose to breastfeed, but ended up switching to formula because they were having problems with breastfeeding. Increased breastfeeding support would mean increased support for these women to achieve their own feeding goals.

Lashes, worra you're still talking about individuals rather than population level.

I have done my own research, it backs up everything the NHS report, which is presumably why they make such recommendations.

Crafts, I'm not. Im saying if every woman decided that she preferred to formula feed, and had weighed that up, then she wouldn't lose anything - she'd gain the benefits that are associated with formula feeding rather than breast.

That is not a problem.