to think nearly all the mums I see are bottle feeding?

[newmumma2015]

Not judging those who can't breastfeed but when taking my new born out the past 3 months I've only seen one other mum breastfeeding. Are you all hiding?

What's the problem OP? They're not your children so why do you care so much? If they're being fed then that's good enough for me. Stop being so judgemental and get on with your own life

Sorry, I wasn't trying to do a "straw man". I was thinking about the large numbers of women who report on here that breastfeeding was a factor in their PND, and that perhaps women should be told that breastfeeding can take a huge psychological toll, which can obviously be avoided by making an active choice to formula feed.

My own experience of struggling with breastfeeding was that the HV was disinterested in my issues and was quite happy for formula top ups to be getting larger and larger. Other than pointing out the monthly breastfeeding group, there was zero referral to any other support. At no point did she say anything that could be construed as pressure to keep breastfeeding. I was fortunate in that I managed to resolve the issues myself, but through zero input from the HV. In fact she was amazed when I got to the point where I was no longer using formula, and seem genuinely puzzled as to how I'd managed it. This attitude was despite my stated intention to breastfeed, so they knew I wanted to, but as long as my DS was gaining weight and looking healthy they didn't give me any grief about breastfeeding at all.

there is little to no official information relating to cluster feeding or what "breastfed babies self regulate how much they take" actually means for the mum.

There are many books and websites which explain all that. La leche league's book, the womanly art of Breastfeeding, is fabulous. There's also kellymom, ABM, BfN, and lots of bloggers such as The Milk Meg. All the information is out there.

The best advice I had for breastfeeding my new born was "if in doubt, boob out".

It's often not obvious if a baby is being breastfed. I had two Australian women sit down beside me while I was feeding my 6mo yesterday and started chatting with me. Once she was "awake" (they thought she was asleep and cuddled into me) one asked if I was breastfeeding her and started talking about being a retired midwife. This was in Falkirk.

'Not judging those who cant'

Does that mean judging those who can but don't wish to? That would have been me.

Maybe all the other feeders are actually hiding from you.

I think I might.

So the conclusion here is that the NHS is definitely wrong that increasing breastfeeding rates is a public health issue?

The data re PND is interesting; women who achieve their breastfeeding goals have lower rates of PND whereas those who struggle have higher rates than either bf, or ff by choice groups(the latter falls in the middle).

Likewise the data around the health benefits of breastfeeding are difficult to interpret because one cannot separate the effect of feeding choice from the family a child is born into. From my own reading of the research I think there is indeed a measurable but very small health benefit to breastfeeding- these small differences individually can look highly significant in a large non randomised study.

I think the emphasis needs to move away from extolling the virtues of breastmilk to helping women who want to breastfeed whether exclusively or in combination with formula to achieve their goals. More assistance with latching on in the early days, more discission about how to deal with cluster feeding, frequent feeding in the early days- as it is often this which drives women to stop and this is short lived. Less demonising of bottles/dummies- there is no good evidence that nipple confusion is detrimental to breastfeeding. For me the real benefits of bf was the convenience once I got past the constant feeding phase. I travel a lot with my baby and breastfeeding made going through airports a lot easier.

Breast is most likely better for baby but formula is a very acceptable alternative.

I say this as a HCP and as a mother who is breastfeeding a toddler. If I have another, I will probably breastfeed again, but introduce a bottle (of either ebm or formula) earlier to avoid the terrible stress I had going back to work with a bottle refuser.

sleeponeday that sounds very much like my experience and I agree with milkyway too.

We managed to get to a point of mixed feeding but even that felt like a struggle in the face of the (mostly very well-intentioned, but unhelpful) support. Those on this thread who believe bf is a significant public health issue should listen to the experiences of those who haven't been able to or haven't wanted to. Its them for whom the message and the current support is not working. Otherwise, let's all just get on feeding with our babies.

YANBU. FF is the cultural norm. I live in the South East and virtually nobody breastfeeds - many opting to ff from birth through choice.

During a week long post natal hospital stay where I saw many women come and go, not one of them attempted to bf. Formula was freely offered, no questions asked. I didn't see any pressure to bf at all.

I'm long retired from breastfeeding (DS2 is 22 ), but when I was doing it, with DS1 I knew half a dozen other bfers and with DS2, one. With both of them I was the only one bfing while in hospital after the births - in for a week with both.

I don't know many new mums these days, but of the few I have come across none are bfing. I think ff is the cultural norm and if there is any pressure to bf from HCP I have never experienced it myself or seen any evidence that it happens.

Fwiw, I don't think it massively matters in a country with clean water, although it's a pity for other reasons that bfing rates are not higher, but it's a massive concern in many parts of the world.

You would probably think my DC were formula fed too because they have one bottle a day of expressed milk from 5 weeks (to prevent refusal if needed later e.g work/illness/circumstances) and if I was going out over a feed it was often that one (I pumped before I left and when I got home).
I breastfed them all until 14months+ and none of my children had any other kind of milk other than mine until I stopped breastfeeding. I would imagine quite a few people thought I formula fed though.

Pour I was talking specifically about the information provided by the NHS and therefore midwives etc during pregnancy as part of the breast is best drive.

Lots of women, particularly first time mums aren't going to know about pro-breastfeeding bloggers etc.

I'm so sorry, Culture. I've just encountered people asking if I'm suggesting (X comment about formula being better, which obviously I wouldn't say) before, when raising issues with bf. I am a bit touchy, I know.

It's interesting to hear that the stats bear out that anecdotal belief, that women who struggle with bf are at increased risk of PND. When bf works it's obviously great, but it's not easy, and the support is not great, either.