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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think nearly all the mums I see are bottle feeding?

289 replies

newmumma2015 · 18/07/2015 15:18

Not judging those who can't breastfeed but when taking my new born out the past 3 months I've only seen one other mum breastfeeding. Are you all hiding? Smile

OP posts:
LashesandLipstick · 19/07/2015 22:35

Crafts my point is that it's subjective! And if large groups prefer one way over the other that's not a problem.

Yes but expressing milk has other advantages and disadvantages. I know I personally wouldn't feel happy expressing.

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 22:36

Why, out of interest? Not saying you should obviously, just interested to know why.

Ilovecrapcrafts · 19/07/2015 22:38

No, scientific evidence isn't subjective. Your list of formula benefits are not evidenced, they're just your opinion. Half of them aren't even advantages of formula, but perceived disadvantages of bf (not painful- why would formula be painful? Can measure intake- why would you need to?)

LashesandLipstick · 19/07/2015 22:40

Wooner

I have an issue of medication, the medication I take would be better switched to a different one if I was pumping, yet as I'm happy on it I don't want to risk changing it to a different one and causing problems.

That aside, I also don't want to feel like I am the sole feeder. I don't like the idea of being hooked up to a contraption having milk sucked out of me. I'm squeamish, which some might think is pathetic, but if I was going to breastfeed I'd just breastfeed. I don't like the whole pump thing. Makes me feel like a dairy cow.

Obviously that's MY issue, but my point was that just saying "well bottle feeding with breast milk will do that" isn't the case..

LashesandLipstick · 19/07/2015 22:43

Crafts there's considerable debate about the benefits of breastfeeding, for every study you find supporting it I could find one contradicting it. Except antibodies in the milk.

Why would you need to measure intake? If you have a premature baby, if your baby has a health problem, if your baby struggles to gain weight...

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 22:45

I don't think crapcrafts was saying that, more that those benefits can't be attributed to formula, but bottle feeding in general

CultureSucksDownWords · 19/07/2015 22:45

My understanding is that vitamin b12 deficiency caused by diet is not common, and a risk for vegans or those on a long term very low calorie diet. Most vegans are well aware of the risk of various deficiencies, and those on a very low calorie long term diet will surely be identified by midwives.

If a woman is weighing up whether to choose formula feeding over breastfeeding, then a worry about b12 deficiency can be alleviated by eating a healthy diet and taking supplements if necessary.

ShadowFire · 19/07/2015 22:45

but it will be replaced by a benefit of formula. So instead of a benefit being lost a different one has been gained. The benefits are different, but nothing is "lost"

Sorry, but I don't agree with that. If you go for the benefits of BF then you lose the benefits of FF and vice versa.

An individual woman will decide which one to choose, but as she can't gain the benefits of both FF and BF simultaneously, she's going to be losing out on the benefits of the one she didn't choose. She may decide that the benefits she's losing out on are insignificant for her, or outweighed by the benefits of the option she's chosen, but she's still "lost" the benefits of the option she didn't pick.

LashesandLipstick · 19/07/2015 22:48

Shadow that's correct, I should have perhaps said that while some benefits are lost others are gained thus meaning it's a subjective decision

My point was that you don't gain no benefits with formula

WhyStannisWhy · 19/07/2015 22:51

Benefits of formula? Well, it stopped my baby from starving when I had to go onto medication at 10 weeks postpartum. That's one benefit.

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 22:52

As I said before. There are no benefits to formula. But there are benefits to formula feeding. The two are different.

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 22:52

Benefits in comparison to breast milk, I mean.

CultureSucksDownWords · 19/07/2015 22:57

Benefits of choosing to exclusively formula feed from birth compared to breastfeeding from birth. Sorry, should have been more specific.

sleeponeday · 19/07/2015 22:59

Formula saved my dehydrated baby's life at 10 days old. That's a pretty big benefit.

I expressed for him after that for 8 months. I had severe PND as a result of our horrific bf relationship (he was tonguetied, long and horrible story). If he'd been a formula fed baby from the off, I don't think I would have been at all. It's surprisingly common, actually, horrible breastfeeding situations triggering PND.

I think that's quite a benefit, too. Given PND is bad for babies, and actually mothers are human beings in their own right just as much as their babies are, and their health and wellbeing also matters. The woman who jumped from Clifton Suspension Bridge with her newborn had stopped taking her medication so she could breastfeed, too - if she'd formula fed, they would both be alive today.

I speak as someone who is still bf my 16 month old dd. She's never had any formula in her life, and presumably she now never will. Bf is fantastic. Eminently suitable for the baby - more like blood than anything else - and free, sterile, convenient - I love feeding dd this way. But formula would have been massively better for DS and for me than expressing was. I wish I'd had the energy and confidence to go with that, really.

sleeponeday · 19/07/2015 23:02

Woonerism no, actually, you can't separate the two. It's like the idiotic saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Formula feeding is an alternative that has some benefits. Breastfeeding is an alternative that has a lot of benefits. The emotional and social aspects are as important as the nutritional.

And the reality is that formula is a damn sight better than cow's milk. We are lucky to have it - not all babies can or should be fed by their mothers.

CultureSucksDownWords · 19/07/2015 23:04

Formula was instrumental in the health of my DS too, and he was given some formula for a few weeks more after birth as my supply struggled to catch up.

Should women be advised officially then that formula feeding from birth as an active choice is beneficial for mother and baby as it is protective against PND?

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 23:05

Well, as you said there, formula feeding has benefits.

Formula as milk alone has no benefit over breast milk alone.

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 23:14

I'm trying to think how else to put it.

Formula feeding has benefits over breast milk for some mothers, such as the things listed above by lashes.

But a bottle of formula vs a bottle of breast milk; the former has no benefit to the child over breast milk. I'm not saying it is bad, obviously, but there are no benefits for formula over breast milk.

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 23:15

God I just managed to repeat myself loads there (and post 3 times in succession). I just don't want to be misconstrued.

WhyStannisWhy · 19/07/2015 23:17

But... surely the important thing is the whole picture, the feeding itself, rather than the milk? I don't see how you can practically separate the two - on paper, sure, you can distinguish them as showing that formula feeding has benefits over breastfeeding, but formula has no benefits over breast milk, but surely more important in the practical scheme of things is the feeding - the whole picture?

WoonerismSpit · 19/07/2015 23:21

I agree, as long as a baby is fed and cared for, who cares how it is done.

I just wanted to make the distinction between formula feeding and formula, to the poster who said there were benefits to formula over breast milk.

westcountrywoman · 19/07/2015 23:29

When DCs were small, nearly everyone I knew BF but I didn't often see Mums BF when out and about. I concluded that BF Mums are generally more discreet when they feed, or try not to feed in public at all, so you don't see babies being fed this way so often.

iamelectrogirl · 19/07/2015 23:31

I think bottle feeding has become the norm now, certainly where I live anyway (west mids). I've been ebf DC1 for 7 months and every time I speak to a healthcare professional, I'm asked how many bottles he has or what milk he's on (though maybe because I'm young and poor so statistically likely to formula feed). I've had looks and stares when I've breastfed in public and I've heard negative opinions about breastfeeding ('no, I won't be doing THAT'). Ultimately, I think it goes both ways and I can't understand why it becomes so much of an issue. All the breastfeeding mums I know don't care how other women feed their baby.
I think there are definitely benefits to encouraging breastfeeding (environmental, social, not giving unethical formula companies who massively mark up the price of formula your money). How it's done now doesn't work though I think- women who have chosen to formula feed have clearly weighed it up and made their choice, those who didn't choose to formula feed will just end up being made to feel guilty.
I do think as a culture we've forgotten how to breastfeed though. I'd say that for MOST women and babies (and by no means all, some babies have TT, some women don't produce milk etc), if you stick a baby on your boob every time they get hungry, you will breastfeed successfully. I think that many of the reasons that people give up breastfeeding are just normal parts of breastfeeding (pain, constant feeding), not problems. Certainly not fun parts and completely valid reasons to stop breastfeeding, but still normal

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/07/2015 23:40

Culture I think the psychological aspect of breastfeeding should be discussed more, yes. We all know about mastitis, difficulty in getting the baby to latch and cracked nipples ahead of time but there is little to no official information relating to cluster feeding or what "breastfed babies self regulate how much they take" actually means for the mum.

I was very much prepared for physical difficulties and had none. I was not in any way prepared for the other stuff and it very quickly became damaging to my mental health.

Perhaps that would always have been the case for me, who can say, but nevertheless I don't think the NHS are necessarily going about their "breast is best" campaign in a well rounded way.

sleeponeday · 20/07/2015 02:54

Should women be advised officially then that formula feeding from birth as an active choice is beneficial for mother and baby as it is protective against PND?

That's a classic straw man argument. It's clearly not what anyone is saying or would say. However, when a woman is clearly struggling terribly to feed her baby breastmilk, and all she hears is, "you mustn't give up now, Mum! You're doing so well... and here's a nice long rendition of all the reasons breast milk is so much better... have you watched this DVD?" rather than, "how are you coping? Is it very exhausting, expressing all that milk and looking after a tiny baby...?" A friend was even told by a health visitor that her only role was, "to feed that baby!" Mastitis be damned, apparently.

There should be balance. At the moment, there is huge pressure to breastfeed, and almost no acknowledgement that they may be costs to the mother to balance, with an equal lack of good quality support unless you can afford a lactation consultant, and know someone who can recommend one who knows what she's doing. Of course breastfeeding is the natural and most beneficial form of infant feeding, and when it works, it's blessedly easy and convenient for the mother, too. But there is almost total silence on the psychological toll problematic breastfeeding relationships can exact, and that's wrong, too. There should be honesty, as well as improved support.

Breast is the biological norm, and should be the social norm as well. But it is not, in fact, always best, and IMO that should be noted, and appropriate recognition paid to when a woman and her baby would be better off with formula. That could be for psychological reasons, for medical reasons, or because the woman has a professional role where she simply can't take full leave to feed, for whatever reason. And we are lucky, then, to have formula available to us.