to ask for a justification of inset days

[5Foot5]

Really, really don't want to sound like I am teacher-bashing here. This is a genuine question.

There is a story being discussed on the news programme about a school which has decided to have all of its inset days at one go so that parents could potentially take advantage of term time prices for holidays. This got me thinking about the timing of inset days generally.

I assume that these days are used for training and /or acquainting staff with the myriad changes imposed on them all the time by government.

But, here is the question, why do these days have to be taken during what would otherwise be term time? Why are they not held during the school holidays when there is surely enough capacity to accommodate these days?

Can i add that I am no longer affected by this since DD has now left school but it really has only just occurred to me..

Germany shouldn't be in any sort of list as regards working women and full time school.

Many primary schools in Germany finish at lunchtime, in fact most do outside of the major cities. Whole day schools (until 4) are a very recent thing. I haven't heard of any kind of wrap around provision as regards breakfast and after school clubs.

Most women (I think it's two thirds) take three years maternity off, which is when the kindergarten places mostly start. Try finding a nursery place for an under three year old in a city - almost impossible.

Added to the fact that your six year old will be finishing school at 11:30am, and your eight year old at 1pm, any teacher sickness often isn't covered, so the entire class troop home again at 8am, nursery workers have just been on strike nationally for a month.....

The only good thing I can say about the system is that it's massively subsidised, so it's cheap. Other than that, if you work, you can forget it.

Why is it that a genuine point about how school scheduling works is seen as an attack on teachers?

Teachers have a democratic right to strike. People have a democratic right to not strike and to moan about stuff that makes their life difficult. Because that's life.

If you're late for an appointment due to traffic you moan. If you're running late at the GPs you moan. If you find out with no notice that you can't drop your child at before school care the next morning, you really expect everyone to say "oh that's ok" without thinking "fuck thats a bit difficult".

Why would you only find out about an inset the day before?

By the way you can't compare insets to striking. An inset is compulsory for teachers, they have no say in it whatsoever!

Believe me, I'd love to not bother!

private schools do have inset but in students holiday time usually beginning of term.

The thing about lack of notice for INSET is nonsense. Every school I know publishes INSET days the previous academic year. I have been as guilty as the next working mother for forgetting and having to ring round at the last minute to see if parents can take them or DH having to get a day off work, but that's our lack of organisation, not the school's fault.

woodhill - so that's the same as state schools then

yes, it's slightly more flexible if I remember. I was responding to the poster saying there was no inset in PS.

why the face?

The face was because you said that independent schools have INSET but they're done in student holidays which is exactly the same as state schools. The but implied it was different to every other school in the country. Which it isn't.

I think what she means is that they are scedualled during the longer holidays so the parents are not so aware of them as opposed to having days during the term time (not implying this is taken out of teaching time just that they are quite unusual to happen mid term)

Of course they also have occasional long weekends that very few state schools do so its swings and roundabouts really

I meant lack of notice for striking - that was in response to the poster who had expressed surprise at parents being peturbed when they worked to rule.

I'm not comparing striking and INSET at all. I'm saying that people should be allowed to express why situations are difficult and not get accused of teacher bashing.

it isn't necessarily eviltwin, there are odd inset days in term time that are not attached to a holiday. my own ds had them in November.

anyway I haven't said anything about inset days being inconvenient or criticising teaching staff so

Hang on a sec... Sorry to revive this thread after a few days, but I didn't want to start a TAAT.

Way back up thread I asked about holidays pre- and post-1988:

So pre-1988/Baker did children get 14 weeks' holiday? And now it's classed as 13 weeks plus 5 INSET days? If it was 14 weeks how were they spaced out? At the moment it's 6 weeks summer, 2 xmas, 2 easter and 3 half terms. How was the extra week tagged on pre-1988?

But I was told that it has always been 13 weeks:

No, children always had the same number of days holiday.

Children have the same holiday they had before 1988 when they were introduced. Teachers have a week less holiday as a result, not children having less term time.

jossiesGiants1 then asked a similar question to mine:

Just out of curiosity, if Children have always had 190 days schooling and the five Inset days have come off Teachers Holidays, when did teachers take those five days holiday they have lost. Was there an extra week during the year that schools were shut or were those odd 5 days always tagged on to the standard school holidays during the year and just not called anything other than ‘school Holiday’

6 weeks Summer
2 Christmas
2 Easter
3 half terms*

The answers to jossiesGiants are different:

Yes, the original holidays were longer. This may be anecdotal, but the summer always seemed to be 6-7 weeks long, whereas now, for this year it's 5 weeks and 2 days for us.

when my dc were at primary I swear the holiday was longer definitely 6 weeks' (seemed an eternity) and they seemed to go back later in September. There was also longer at christmas 3 weeks' even.

Just curious to know which it really is?

I started teaching pre-Baker days, now known as INSET.
Christmas was longer as we broke up earlier, and the sunmmer holidays were a couple of days longer. Remember, it's only 5 days.

The amount of time children are not in school is the same. But 5 days have gone from being labelled holiday to being labelled inset. Which may result in them being more spread through the year and not bunched in a one week block

Also, holidays varied a lot by area, so memories don't necessarily tally up to one consistent total iyswim.

Downfalljenga

The number of teaching hours in schools is unchanged since 1948

The number of teaching hours in schools is the same regardless of whether the school is state / academy / free / private / special / boarding

Teaching hours are the same everywhere
but different schools organise those hours in different ways

Agreed, Libraries. I moved from the south to the north after a very early Easter holiday and found out there was no half term, they had Wakes week instead. Which was a lot later!
Sometimes INSET days can't be at a convenient time if you want a specific speaker.

Thank you!