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Original poster

to ask for a justification of inset days

368 replies

5Foot5 · 17/07/2015 23:50

Really, really don't want to sound like I am teacher-bashing here. This is a genuine question.

There is a story being discussed on the news programme about a school which has decided to have all of its inset days at one go so that parents could potentially take advantage of term time prices for holidays. This got me thinking about the timing of inset days generally.

I assume that these days are used for training and /or acquainting staff with the myriad changes imposed on them all the time by government.

But, here is the question, why do these days have to be taken during what would otherwise be term time? Why are they not held during the school holidays when there is surely enough capacity to accommodate these days?

Can i add that I am no longer affected by this since DD has now left school but it really has only just occurred to me..

OP posts:
Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 08:08

Children need more leave than adults. They will always need childcare around the school day and holidays.

muminhants1 · 20/07/2015 08:35

I don't know if anyone has made this point, but when I was at school you got 3 weeks holiday at Easter. Now it's only 2, so I assume that's where the INSET days came from.

I just wish they'd tack at least a couple of them onto May half term as it's the nicest time of year to go away and it would be great to be able to have 10 days away instead of only 7/8. I don't like the random ones (though they always seem to be on Fridays and Mondays, so it does sometimes mean you can have a weekend away).

Noodledoodledoo · 20/07/2015 08:38

Muminhants1 as I have said previously the May half term option in secondary wouldn't work due to external exam timetables which are set for the whole country. For primary it wouldn't be such an issue except families with students at both levels being restricted but I guess non matching INSET does that anyway.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/07/2015 08:42

As described previously on this thread, INSET days came out of existing holiday not term time. So children have the same holiday they had before 1988 when they were introduced. Teachers have a week less holiday as a result, not children having less term time.

clam · 20/07/2015 09:10

"seemingly are preferred by parents."

But that's the thing (and has also been pointed out many times previously on threads like these), "parents" are not one amorphous mass that will all prefer the same thing. There are as many parents who prefer random days as there are those who want them tacked onto holidays. And then, which holidays? May half term/February? The over-riding principle has to be that it fits the schools themselves, whose priorities are to benefit the staff and therefore the students and who have the best overview of everyone's differing wants and needs.

GrumpyOldBiddy2 · 20/07/2015 09:32

*When the OP makes inflammatory comments like

Still about 30 days more leave then I get!!

threads tend to move on*

But it probably is! Accept that your terms of employment are good (but not representative), that people will be envious of this (and yes they could train if they wanted to) and focus on what is important.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record!

jossiesGiants1 · 20/07/2015 10:00

Just out of curiosity, if Children have always had 190 days schooling and the five Inset days have come off Teachers Holidays, when did teachers take those five days holiday they have lost. Was there an extra week during the year that schools were shut or were those odd 5 days always tagged on to the standard school holidays during the year and just not called anything other than ‘school Holiday’

6 weeks Summer
2 Christmas
2 Easter
3 half terms

clam · 20/07/2015 10:29

Yes, the original holidays were longer. This may be anecdotal, but the summer always seemed to be 6-7 weeks long, whereas now, for this year it's 5 weeks and 2 days for us.

woodhill · 20/07/2015 10:33

when my dc were at primary I swear the holiday was longer definitely 6 weeks' (seemed an eternity) and they seemed to go back later in September. There was also longer at christmas 3 weeks' even.

Downtheroadfirstonleft · 20/07/2015 10:36

Gosh, the level of defensiveness from some of the teachers posting here, is astounding.

ilovesooty · 20/07/2015 10:38

Why is it astounding?

clam · 20/07/2015 10:42

Yes, why astounding? What's more astounding to me is the general level of attack towards teachers about matters beyond their control.

EvilTwins · 20/07/2015 10:42

Yes - astounding. Entire profession is attached for things beyond their control so they attempt to defend their position. Totally unreasonable. Hmm

TalkinPeace · 20/07/2015 11:26

Please note that the number of teaching hours in UK schools is unchanged since 1948.
It is the same across all education sectors.

If you remember it otherwise, your memories are wrong.

If you think teachers get a cushy time, go and become one.

Sagethyme · 20/07/2015 16:21

The real issue, though, is not INSET days, but the woeful lack of childcare provision in this country. It's still a system which is designed to be one working and one stay at home parent. In many European countries schools start at 8 and finish at 4 -5 with after school clubs. From 3 months to 6 years they do Kindergarten from 8-12 and then kindergarten clubs from 1-5 pm (they often have a lunch time childcare facility too. Then from 6 years they attend school until 18 and the school day fits in with the parental working day. (I am talking central and Northern Europe (cant comment on southern Europe as i dont know how their systems work!)
Furthermore childcare is often heavily subsidised more than here in the UK. (This summer my child care fees negate all my earnings, for the next six weeks, . Not much of an incentive to keep working really....)

Basically the Government does not want mothers to work, nor does it want to fund education, NHS, police or fire services.

Daisywellies · 20/07/2015 16:28

I am not a teacher and no one in my family is a teacher, but the constant attacking and begrudging towards them really annoys me. It goes on here in Ireland as well. Teachers are contracted to work a certain number of hours a day and days a year and are paid accordingly. The pay is worked out pro rata so that they don't end up getting no money at all during the times that they are not contracted to work.
I don't see why that's so hard for people to get their heads around.
If anything, it is teachers who are being exploited because so many of them bring work home, organise extra curricular activities etc.

TalkinPeace · 20/07/2015 17:42

Sagethyme
In many European countries schools start at 8 and finish at 4 -5 with after school clubs
Please name five - with links

And do not just quote Germany as its actual maternal workforce participation rate is lower than that of the UK

FanOfHermione · 20/07/2015 18:19

France

They start at 8.30 finish at 4.30pn (even though this now a bit more patchy due a new organisation. Not sll schools have imemented slightly 'shorter' hours but with school on a Wednesday).
There is a before and afterschool club. The only proviso was for children not to be at school more than 10gours I think, ie you have to choose before or after school.
No PD days there. If a teacher us training, there will have a supply teacher to cover.

FanOfHermione · 20/07/2015 18:23

Oh and most women work there, full time (part time doesn't really exist)

MrsUltracrepidarian · 20/07/2015 18:33

When I worked in Paris (2 years ago) a lot of women (including my SIL)had Wednesdays off because their DC were not at school that day.

TalkinPeace · 20/07/2015 21:50

fanofhermione
France Oh and most women work there, full time
Um no.
The statistics here are clear data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS - only half of French women are in the workforce

The UK is 56% as is the USA and Germany is 54%

FanOfHermione · 21/07/2015 09:43

In that case, you can't say that we shouldn't talk about Germany because mothers are normally at home for their dcs therefore the system doesn't compare.....
It also makes me question how they have put the stats together as it doesn't seem to match either your experience if Germany in my experience of France.

I know about One woman who doesn't work, (and it's not seen as a good thing) from my own circle if friends and relatives. They are from all over France, different circles etc.

FanOfHermione · 21/07/2015 09:45

Bye whatever the stats you found, it doesn't negate the fact that the system in place there works for working parents and does NOT rely on one parent being at home 'whenever the school it needs it'.
I wish there was a similar ethos over here.

Millionprammiles · 21/07/2015 12:17

No issue with INSET days but the endless dressing up days/craft projects/cake sales (that take place within the school day) need justifying.

TalkinPeace · 21/07/2015 12:21

FAnofHermione
You are misinterpreting what the data says.

French and German women work less than British ones, therefore they are available.
Your group of friends may be deeply unrepresentative.

The USA famously has no maternity leave, no adoption leave, no right to sick leave over children, dire employment rights
and yet has more women in the workforce than either France of Germany.

INSET days are not really an issue when it comes to work as they were taken out of the teacher's holidays, not the children's allocated time away from their parents.

Private schools do not have INSET days, but the boarding schools all broke up two or three weeks ago and do not go back till mid September