To ask everyone to eat less meat and meat products?

[Breadandwine]

There are 3 reasons I eat a plant-exclusive diet:

1. I feel I'm healthier (I became veggie to avoid BSE - and my osteoarthritis has been stopped in its tracks since I went vegan)
2. Animal welfare issues (I went vegan after looking at the inevitable cruelty involved in the meat and dairy industries)
3. Global warming/climate change (the single most important thing anyone can do to fight GW is to go vegan - the world's livestock industry contributes more to GW than does transport!)

Before global warming reared its ugly head, I was quite reticent about my veganism, only talking about it when I was asked. But now that our children's and our grandchildren's future is threatened, I'm a lot more vocal.

And now there's me and the Pope on the same side - who'dda thunk it?

No thanks. I believe we are supposed to eat meat and that meat correctly reared is highly nutritious but do agree that the way we are going about it is all wrong.
What about grains for humans? Hugely environmentally destructive for a product which is so nutritionally inept it needs to be fortified.
And soy, so popular with vegans. Not so popular with thyroids. Also unpopular with the environment.
Lierre Kieth's book makes some excellent points. One is that animals can be reared in places where crops cannot be grown. Like the sea. Therefore much more efficient.

And what if animals like being eaten? They're living their lives content in the knowledge they're going to make lots of people very happy when they die. That's probably why cows have such contented looks on their faces. And they'll like on in shoes, car seats, and trousers for people who should give themselves a good talking too.

They'll live on...

Yawn. Okay OP, I'll bite....

I love meat. And eggs. And cheese.

I couldn't give a rats arse about the state of the planet in 1,000 years time.

I don't lie awake at night fretting about the treatment of poor Bessie before McDonalds turn her into a burger for me.

Happy now?

One final word from me.....BACON!

I was quite reticent about my veganism, only talking about it when I was asked

Wow, you must be a one off.

It's a good thing to raise awareness, but you need to be careful how you do it or people get very defensive and argumentative as you've seen. So YANBU to ask but the tone of your posts has come across as U.

I'm a vegan, my 3yo DD is veggie and my husband is an omnivore. We do what makes us happy (well DD is welcome to decide she wants to eat meat when she understands where it comes from). We try to make responsible and informed decisions rather than burying our head in the sand. It's difficult to live a completely consistent lifestyle but IMO people should make an effort to do what they can. Unfortunately preaching to people is not usually the best way to achieve that...

That said, there are some depressingly ignorant views on here. No global warming? Farming's been around since time began? Humans are carnivores? What a load of shit. If you're going to respond aggressively at least don't embarrass yourself.

YANBU. I think we mindlessly consume meat to the extent that it's practically impossible to find a vegetarian sandwich, let alone a vegan sandwich in a cafe or shop in the UK. Even salads have bits of chicken in. Why does a salad have to contain meat???

YABVU.
An arrogant holy-than-thou attitude will just serve to piss people off.

"That said, there are some depressingly ignorant views on here...Humans are carnivores? What a load of shit. If you're going to respond aggressively at least don't embarrass yourself"

Speak for yourself Miles.

I also like the taste of meat and I love cheese but I'd rather not have it knowing how animals are treated to provide it. It's just not right.

I do agree that it just annoys people to preach about it, I just think there could be more tasty meat-free options on menus so people don't eat meat mindlessly.

I thought they proven global warming isnt as bad as they thought as part of the natural cycle of the earth. I believe we heading for another ice age at the moment. Anyone seen the amazing photos of plunto at the moment. (Ignores the whole meat argument as being a meat eater i would never tell people what they can or can not eat.)

Yep I will speak for myself Roses. It could be argued that humans are omnivores but carnivores is a push.

Favourite I have never come across a salad that had chicken in and as not lebelled as such.

And vegetarian and vegan food is become more wildly available, not less

Sorry Yabu it's a personal preference I'm now a vegetarian but I cook meat for my family . I could never go vegan as I love cheese way too much

I've tried to read through this whole thread but it's kind of gone the way I feared it might but I will just say this. I am a vegan but I'm also not perfect. I don't and don't pretend to have the answers for or frankly even care enough about every single environmental or ethical crisis in the world. I've drawn my own lines in the sand as to what I can and am willing to do and get on with it. Every vegan or vegetarian is so for different reasons. For some it's purely dietary, for some it's environmental, for some it's ethical. For some it's a mixture. For me it's as simple and basic as not wanting to be responsible for the death of other creatures as much as possible. I do also know this is not flawless. Yes, I realise there will be products in my such as furniture or carrier bags in my house that may well contain animal ingredientsingredients but again I do not pretend to be perfect I just do the best I can. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite but I can see why it seems that way.

I try very hard not to preach to people but I find that I am asked why I am a vegan a lot often at the worst moments to give an explanation such as during meals out etc and I tend not to get into it and brush it off because no matter what I say it will sound judgemental even if it's not. I realise there are many caricatures of what a vegan is like (many which stem from truth of course) but it does make me almost nervous about telling people and I generally only do when I have to or when they ask.

I try my hardest to live and let live but I have to admit it's not always a courtesy I am given in return as the first impulse many people have seems to be to mock me or try and find flaws in my choice regardless of the fact I never comment on theirs.

I usually stay away from these debates because I find them stressful but I felt I wanted to post this just to show another side of the story I guess.

Hear hear Nargles!

YAB a but U, but YANBU in that meat production is bad for the planet. As is soya, quinoa, asparagus (which I grew in my back garden, btw), and numerous other foods, both meat and veggie.

The issue is not what food we're eating - the issue is how we are producing and acquiring that food. Meat is overall more strenuous on resources, there's no denying that, but increasing the amount of vegetarian food we eat isn't exactly good news for the environment either.

It's not as simple as saying stop eating meat - especially since turning land over to grazing for few years can give it a much needed rest from intense agriculture - we need a complete re-examination of what we're eating and how we supply ourselves.

Why is it when anyone makes an ethical choice which may slightly reduce the plight of planet others leap in for the attack, we are hypocrites, make selfish choices, the 4 x4 driving vegan is probably making slightly less impact on the world than the steak eating 4x 4 driver. I drive a van, ride a bike, eat some meat, have solar panels but live in a big house that is energy inefficient. I prefer imperfect people who are trying than those that don't give a rats arse, again for selfish reasons they just tend to be nicer!

Before I had children I was vegan. However, since having them I don't have the time, energy or money anymore. I don't want to get into an argument with any vegans about it so please don't start.

Me too bike.

And that's coffee, which is as vegan as can be. Can you imagine the effects of growing many more tons and tons of plant/grain/vegetable matter to feed the world?

Actually, most deforestation is about growing for fuel, and for adding to snacks most of which aren't vegan but hey ho.

YANBU to ask other people to make ethical choices. I have a 'thing' about organic food which I can bang on about at great length. And a lot of opinions about sugar which I do appreciate can bore the pants off other people. I've found a brilliant ap called Loserz which is basically about dieting but also matches you with people who share your lifestyle and food choices. So I can get all my stuff off my chest without sucking the life out of my real friends. Worth a look.

Raising meat doesn't 'cost' the earth more than crops, at a basic environmental level the two are co-dependent. Raising meat even in a manner where the animal has an actual good standard of life and provides popular healthy cuts of meat might. I grant you raising free range lambs for slaughter at 3 months or prime dairy, or sirloin steaks from young cows might take far more land than the plant alternative. But a few scraggy cows slaughtered for stewing beef, or adult sheep, foraging fatty pigs etc can produce food in landscapes no one is getting any arable on. Its our desire for prime cuts, rich dairy etc that makes them so inefficient. And how much environmental damage do you think all that machinery does that makes arable land yield such high crops? Cos that doesn't happen by luck.