To ask everyone to eat less meat and meat products?

[Breadandwine]

There are 3 reasons I eat a plant-exclusive diet:

1. I feel I'm healthier (I became veggie to avoid BSE - and my osteoarthritis has been stopped in its tracks since I went vegan)
2. Animal welfare issues (I went vegan after looking at the inevitable cruelty involved in the meat and dairy industries)
3. Global warming/climate change (the single most important thing anyone can do to fight GW is to go vegan - the world's livestock industry contributes more to GW than does transport!)

Before global warming reared its ugly head, I was quite reticent about my veganism, only talking about it when I was asked. But now that our children's and our grandchildren's future is threatened, I'm a lot more vocal.

And now there's me and the Pope on the same side - who'dda thunk it?

Of course you can ask op but you are wasting your time I'm afraid.
I don't drink, smoke or take drugs and I eat healthily but I just couldn't give up meat because I would have nothing left to enjoy

What do you think the scraggy cows, pigs and sheep eat Lurked? The point is that raising meat DOES cost more, because the food grown to feed them (which reduces down to produce a smaller quantity of meat) could just as easily feed people. Clearly there are many on here who are not giving this the required amount of thought.

I'm not giving up meat, it's a staple point in my diet. The planet is stuffed anyway, at least in terms of stopping or reversing the huge damage done. So I'm just going to enjoy the ride (and my chicken curry later). Don't get me wrong, I believe in animal rights, and treating them with kindness even if we do plan to eat them. However, animals eat other animals, it's a fact. Hell, if humans had stuck to their primitive forms, just basic hunting/gathering, instead of becoming what we are (self aware morons, who think we're entitled to everything on this planet, whether we're eating a burger or chewing on lettuce, we're all the same selfish creatures), the world wouldn't be anywhere near as screwed as it is. The only way this planet will ever get 'saved' now is if humans (and their creations) disappeared completely.

Clearly some people aren't giving it much thought. How much arable produce di you think you're getting off an incredibly steep and craggy area, like some places in Wales, Scotland, Yorkshire dales, cumbria etc? Not a lot I can assure you, at the best maybe a low yield of hay. So unless you don't use what amounts to quite a big part of English farm land for grazing, you don't use it at all. And if we weren't fussed about prime quality, they'd be fine on just the forage taken from their grazing over winter, no cereal laden extras necessary. Some places are so hilly that they can't take even a low yield of hay from it, and only sheep ( or goats) can graze it year round. By contrast you'll notice the flatter areas tend to yield high arable produce, not just because of practicalities but as I'm sure you're aware soil quality. But even then you only need to compare the growth on the heavily managed crop to the unmanaged for generations horse field near by to see these crop yields aren't just down to good soil and one guy in a tractor. Even discounting the work/ fuel/ machinery etc you could observe, how much do you think has gone into developing barley or oats with a shorter stem to avoid waste? And even then that straw is still a useless by product if you don't use it for livestock. Yes it would be good to farm animals naturally in places that suit them and by suit I don't just mean cos nobody is battery farming on a craggy hillside, rather than producing high quality animal products, that we don't need in such vast amounts, on good arable land. However if you want to debate the benefits of only farming arable, you really need to do a bit of research into how farming works. It's really not as simple as 'shall I plant enough oats this year to feed 1000 people or raise enough beef to feed 100'. Plus you forget one rather important detail. This country has screwed over farmers royally since society changed to food chain stores and the never ending quest for cheapest prices. And no farmer that's worked his arse off raising beef, or lamb or anything else, on a steep hill or on prime arable land, is going to just roll over and say yes whatever you think is best I'll just quickly swop crops.

MrsG I respectfully disagree that we are past the point of no return. We are just coming to that point and that is why changes now CAN make a difference.

Also you should note spring people do not eat what is usually referred to as forage, so hay, or silage, or the haylage for the horse industry. Which is all you get from a field of grass without a hell of a lot of resource 'waste'. And like I say in many places do what you like, you'll still only get grass. Although in grass I also include weeds that humans can't digest to any possible use.

YABU. And preachy.

I like meat. I buy the best when possible.

Spring, it has come to that point I'm afraid. Between countries much larger than ourselves over indulging, refusing to to anything about pollution, the carbon footprint, the severe over population of this planet by humans (which is multiplying by a quite frightening scale) etc. If we think the UK is not doing enough, with our almost measley 70 million population, what effect do you think America, China, India etc are having on the planet - daily? It's a horrific amount, and it's not going to stop or slow down at all, just get worse. You can try and convert the few, but quite frankly all veggies and vegans ever manage to do is preach to their own choir. It's done, unless some huge, global event happens, this fight to be eco freindly is long lost. Unfortunatly, the damage that was being done was not recognised at the time - like a smoker who didn't realise that it was bad for their health until they now realise they have terminal cancer.

the food grown to feed them (which reduces down to produce a smaller quantity of meat) could just as easily feed people

well I don't know about you but i am not too fond of grass

It's really upsetting that the people who are actually trying to make a positive difference are being talked down here. Civilised society my arse.

I'm leaving this thread now but I won't stop trying to show people in general that their efforts, however small they may be, are not in vain and are appreciated at least by some.

Maybe go look at the 'used tampons' thread where people are more environmentally enlightened and concerned. I know which crowd I'd rather spend time with.

MYOB.

During the War the Government looked at the possibility of eliminating the meat ration or at any rate of introducing meat-free days. Their Chief Scientific Adviser told them that "while there is no harm in vegetarianism its adherents tend to be full of wind and self-righteousness'.

Plus ça change . . .

there is no harm in vegetarianism its adherents tend to be full of wind

Yep.Never stand downwind of a vegan!

It's actually sad that people who want to advance a cause they believe in don't bother to do even the vaguest research into the industry they are seeking to reform. You can't mend it if you aren't aware of where it's broke or how it works. If environmentally enlightened is a new description for stating ill informed opinions as fact and getting annoyed when they aren't accepted as such, then I'll happily remain as unenlightened but in possession of the facts.
Sad thing actually is, I do agree that current animal food production isn't at a healthy level for either us, the animal or the environment. And people pedalling far fetched, impossible solutions to problems they clearly don't understand does nothing for either your cause or those discussing the issue with fact and logic, because all get stereotyped as tree hugging townies as many in the farming industry think

I'm leaving this thread now

Why do people say this? Are you going to put a pad in the paper? Nobody gives a shit if you post on the thread or not.

Pad?

Ad!

Bastard I-phone

Spring, I don't think I was talking down to you? I was merely explaining how, due to the way the world works, the idealism of "oh we all stop eating meat, the problem will be fixed" is not the answer. The human race is one that believes it's progressive. To completely halt the damage we are doing in terms of food consumption, pollution and general builds and de-forrestation, we would have to go back to living in a pre-industrial state. There is absolutly no way that is going to happen, sad but try. It's not being 'negative', it is an unfortunate reality. 7+ billion people are not going to put down their McDonalds, or stop driving their cars, live in the most basic livable form we can to save the planet. We, as a collective, are going to carry on, because we think we're better than the eco system, we think that it's ok - there will be either a magic fix, or it will be someone else's problem in the future. And perhaps there will be a fix, but it does not change the fact that the damage already done is beyond repair. It's not just about meat consumption, or saving the amazon, or finding renewable energy, or cutting down on using cars, factories, nuclear power, or saving whales/tigers/bees or stopping wars - it's about all of that and more. We either stop completely, or 'saving the planet' isn't going to work at all.

Now I want bacon. Mmmmm, bacon. With pancakes. And maple syrup. Damnit.

Can you give an example of what you do eat? I am a veggie but would like to take the next step!

Im not a veggie but don't eat that much meat. I think threads like this area great way of exposing some of the arguments for both sides. This is quite a nice little video, a bit thought provoking less meat vid

If we weren't meant to eat meat, animals wouldn't be made of it!

yanbu to be preachy

but yanbu about the topic.
we reduced our meat, esp processed meat consumption drastically and are healthier for it. it being more environmentally friendly is a nice side effect.

Impossible to find a vegetarian sandwich? They are everywhere, dozens Where are looking?

And humans are meant to eat meat, that's why we have meat tearing teeth

In general, I am trying to eat less meat (and better sourced). But every time a vegan comes over all sanctimonious at me I feel an overwhelming desire for a nice carnivorous meal. Today I'm having local lamb. Raised on the local fells. Where no other food crop is going to grow.

Yum.

Mmmm.... bacon....

I can't believe people are so gullible that they still believe all that 'global warming ' bollocks!