To already be fed up with teachers/eduaction workers posting about their long holiday!

[Freshlysqueezed]

Facebook is swarming with people saying how much they deserve it and other people patting them on the back. It seems like the world and his wife are in education or SAHM's with 6 glorious weeks ahead of them. Apart from a one week holiday I have a juggling timetable of various childcare arrangements to run to and fro from.

No, they don't speak for all teachers.

But this is an attitude that runs through teaching, as evidenced by people on this thread.

Surely you can see how patronising it is?

It is not an attitude that I have experienced. I tend not to have patronising, moaning types as my friends though. I think you find those in all professions though.

They just happen to be 2 mums I know from school. Incidentally, they don't know each other.

I'm still very disappointed in their attitudes. And surprised that you haven't come across it yourself, because lots of people on this thread have.

Just to join in the bun fight OP, I think YABU. Having worked in the corporate world and then been a SAHM I decided to train as a teacher as I thought it would be a bit easier than my old job with better hols too. Couldn't have been more wrong!

In the old world I had lots of planning and analysis before meetings with clients / big presentations. Then I evaluated the meetings with future recommendations etc. Suddenly in teaching it was like the client meeting / presentation was from 8.45 to 3.30 everyday and all that planning, evaluating and more planning etc had to be fitted in before and after this. And I had to think about 30 different clients at a time. Plus 2 nights out of 5 there was a bloody meeting from 4 till 6. Plus my teaching salary was less than half what my corporate salary had been 10 years earlier!

I loved working with the kids but I felt like Mickey Mouse in Fantasia where the buckets just keep on coming. No down time at all during the day.

So now I'm back in the business world again. And I think teachers really do deserve those long hols. Cheers to you all!

I'm still very disappointed in their attitudes. And surprised that you haven't come across it yourself, because lots of people on this thread have.

I just don't tend to get on with moaning types so I probably give them a wide berth. I only have people on my FB feed that I genuinely like.

I thought that teaching was a great job and probably the only one that I would return to. I could fit my hours round the children and could enjoy the holidays with them. Most teachers I knew thought similar. Yes there were days when it felt intense but I was very clear that I was in it for the holidays and during the term time I paid the price for that.

I would never claim to be the hardest working person in the world because that would make me a mug.

I've only ever done this job so I have limited frame of reference re others. I bloody love it - love the kids (mostly!), love my colleagues, love the intellectual challenge of planning interesting varied lessons that bring the kids on. Hate marking but you can't have it all...I work extremely hard from sept-June, then have an easier time in July due to exam groups leaving.

The holidays are the only perk but a great one. I intend to do maybe 3 full days' work this holiday. I'll also read some new books to teach next year, but that's not really working. By September I will be refreshed and ready for the new term.

Teachers are our own worst enemies. We whine endlessly. And yet the job is paid ok, we often have a sense of vocation, we are under immense pressure but we also laugh every day. It could be a lot worse, I think (that's not an invitation, Nicky Morgan...) I think one if the reasons we whine as a profession is that people attack us in a way they don't attack others - after all, we've all been to school so we know what it's like, but we haven't all been dentists or accountants etc. what people don't always realize is that things are v different for today's teachers compared with the ones they were taught by. Much busier, more pressured, more scrutinised. And the pay is better than it was then, but perhaps not enough to compensate for the additional work we are expected to put in.

Here endeth my stream of consciousness

Ladyflip - I think we may have the same Facebook friends as that's suspiciously close to what lots of my friends have been saying!

I don't think for a minute that teachers only work 9-3:30! But as Ladyflip said there are many references to the rest of us doing "9-5" (and from the way these posts are written they imply that they think most jobs outside teaching are 9-5) and Facebook comments about how "we work what you 9-5 lot work all year in 9 months". This is just bollocks as any professional job (and many others) require you to work 12+ hour days week in week out without such long holidays. Nobody is bothered about teachers saying "I'm knackered and really looking forward to this long holiday"; it's the constant statuses and memes that are up at the moment which deride and belittle how hard the rest of us work. This is a totally different thing from suggesting teachers don't work hard, or that they shouldn't have a lovely long holiday, or that we think that we could do a better job than them.

For people that keep saying "try it before you comment", I understand where you're coming from but most of us made a decision not to go into teaching because that's not where our skill sets are and that's not what interests us professionally. It is not because we "could not cope".

It's clear teachers are obviously very defensive, which is understandable given some MN threads and how things are reported etc. This doesn't mean every comment directed at you is an attack. By us saying "to outsiders it looks great that you have 13 weeks off" why can't you just say "well it's probably not 13 weeks off given things we have to do, but yes we're very lucky to get much more time off than other jobs". It would get a lot fewer backs up than just retorting "we work really hard" to people who are on their last legs and won't get such a long holiday .

So glad I'm not a teacher any more and am one step removed from all this bashing.

Honestly, teachers should be taught in training never to talk about their lives in any way.

This perception that teaching is an easy job with short hours and huge long holidays where you do no work, with excellent pay and a gold plated pension is so pervasive. It's a wonder that there's a shortage of teachers! You'd think schools would be inundated.

I don't really give two hoots whether teachers get 10w holidays, 12w, 14w etc. Whether they get paid for them or not. Whether they work long hours, short hours, weekends. But the whinging! In my close group of friends there is a nurse, a doctor, 2 teachers, a lawyer, and a few corporate mgrs. By a long shot the lawyer has the longest hours and the nurse has the worst shifts. We all work long hours, and with email and expectation of always being available, there is little time to relax. But who moans most? My two teacher friends. I just don't get it. They both know that our lawyer friend has probably worked 18h a day for the past few days, and the nurse has had a week of long night shifts. I marvel at their gall tbh.

I am a teacher- I am not on holiday yet. I am feeling very cross at friends in another LA who have finished for the year!

to keep me going during this mornings paperwork blitz.

Well said Sassy. Think you hit the nail on the head!

Although I really don't think teachers are slated publicly as much as many professions (politicians, bankers, estate agents, lawyers...it looks like doctors are the latest to be the government's target of hatred!). You probably all feel and notice what is said about teachers but don't notice the other stuff, just as the rest of us who have "unpopular" jobs feel and notice what is said about our jobs more than what is said about teachers. We just need respect for all because there are huge, varied stresses in ALL jobs!

What do you do FlatWhite? You're not an estate agent or a banker are you?

I think some teachers whine because unlike doctors, lawyers and nurses they have people telling them that their job is easy and they could do it all the time. Some people seem to think that because they went to school once that they know exactly what it is like to be a teacher.

I get pissed off with whining teachers too as I have done many other jobs before I was a teacher, I know what jobs in 'the real world' are like. I also her pissed off with people telling me that my job is easy and they don't believe the hours that are worked

I am a teacher, I love my job, I love my holidays, it is hard work, and long hours during the term time, but I know plenty of others who work as hard if not harder than I do but I know plenty of others (and have worked in private sector myself in such a role, but hated it) where it isn't as hard and the pay is much better. It's swings and roundabouts.

Some jobs - law for example - work incredibly hard, probably harder than teachers but the perks of their jobs from my point of view - they can pick and choose their holidays to some extent, their salary on the whole is way above that of teachers (my cousin has earned more in 5 years as a lawyer than my dad earned in 25 years as a teacher!), they don't seem to have the same vilification aimed at them as teachers do.

For those saying use the school buildings for clubs during the holiday - a third of our school is out of bounds this summer as it is having the asbestos sealed in the building - this means everything has had to be removed in the past half term and packed away, and in the last few days of the holiday we are all expected to go back in (above our directed time so effectively unpaid) to put our classrooms back in order. Every summer holiday our place looks like a building site to maintain old 60's cheap buildings.

Another thing that has come to light for me this year - every other job seems to get a maximum of 12 months maternity plus annual leave tagged on, sometimes to either end - as a teacher we get 12 months - there is no annual leave to tag on. It doesn't bother me as I know I will get it easier in years to come with childcare in holidays but it is another perk we don't get.

I guess the annoyance comes if you know a lot of people who work in schools and are celebrating at once - where as an odd person being smug about going on holiday won't really hit home.

Can I just add to all the teachers saying 'if you want our holidays come and train as a teacher and see how hard it is and why we need them' (am paraphrasing there rather than directly quoting) that the reverse is also true: You can leave teaching if it really is that hard / underpaid and go and do a job with better pay or more of a work / life balance rather than constantly whining And for what it's worth, I completely agree that teacher's do a hard job and have too much stress, but it's the attitude amongst so many teacher friends of mine that 'we all work harder than everyone else' (again paraphrasing) that can get irritating.

This is just bollocks as any professional job (and many others) require you to work 12+ hour days week in week out without such long holidays.

I don't think there are many jobs in which a 12-14 hour day is the norm and I would never work in one of them. If people are putting in 14 hour days 47 weeks a year that is madness.

I have worked in the private sector and commanded a high wage and senior position. I did have the odd very long day but not the norm and I earned far far more.

Before I get leapt on I am not saying that I worked harder than everyone else. I suspect I worked similar hours to the average person, it is just compressed.

Yes the holidays are a massive bonus, in my other jobs I earned different types of bonuses.

Now I do absolute bugger all and have no problem admitting that. I am not one of your worthy vocation type people who has it harder than everyone else. I always look for the easy route.

I have just read back over the thread and spotted this charming post:

Add message | Report | Message poster EllieFAntspoo Fri 17-Jul-15 20:21:06
I say let them be. If you can land yourself a cushy job earning a full time salary for part time hours, and have guaranteed gilt edged pensions to boot, then why shouldn't they go for it. Most wouldn't survive in the real job market with real employers, real responsibilities, deadlines and accountability anyways.

Besides, they have a glass ceiling no amount of 'education' can help them with. They've picked a menial civil service job as a career. When someone asks them what they do, they have to say, "I'm a teacher" and they have to accept that all to common dismissive, "Oh."

They deserve any joy they can muster from their job perks, IMO, because, in a world where any mother can do just as well a job of educating her children, it is the perks that make their job worthwhile.

................................

That poster seems to have frothed themself off to sleep last night, I hope the drugs have worn off they are feeling better this morning

Seriously though, are there people who think like this? I have met people who have all kinds of jobs and I don't think I've ever been so dismissive or disparaging.

You can leave teaching if it really is that hard / underpaid and go and do a job with better pay or more of a work / life balance rather than constantly whining

I totally agree. As soon as I caught myself moaning about my workload I made plans to leave.

KitKat, I think you'll find lots of people have done exactly that recently. I certainly did, and am much happier in a "real world" job. Which has longer contracted hours and significantly less holiday. Despite that, I'm doing about 10% of what I used to do as a teacher, for the same money.

(Incidentally, I'm not sure how a desk job in a quiet office is more of a real job than teaching in a state secondary school)

I never said that teachers don't work in the 'real world'. Indeed I actually said that teachers have a hard job and have too much stress. I'm just pointing out that it's not a job they have to do if they really don't enjoy it.

I don't think teachers are alone in moaning about their job. It is also quite hard to leave a job that you have specifically trained to do - although I agree life is too short to stay in a job you hate.

I have been a teacher and now am not. I can assure you that I worked far more hours over the year as a teacher than I ever have since in standard 9-5, average annual leave jobs, despite what it may look like on paper. There was barely an evening or weekend I didn't do work at home, and some of each school holiday would be spent marking or planning. I hardly knew what to do with myself with all the free time when I first left, and laughed when people asked if i missed the holidays!

Obviously there are other jobs that work as hard or harder, but certainly not the majority. And plenty of people in other jobs post excited things when starting a period of annual leave (often in term time when teachers can't be off! )

Sorry KitKat, the real world response was to other people that have mentioned it, not directly in response to your post.

I'm loving the start of my six weeks off. It's going to be bliss.

I enjoyed it when I was a teacher.
I enjoy not now as a HLTa.

And I enjoyed it when I wasn't a teacher or a TA and I was just spending extra time with Dd. I worked PT during those summer holidays but used most of my holidays in that time too.

And yes, lots of jobs have other stresses too. No teacher i know in real life says teaching is the only job you don't work hard. And I know a few who have had different jobs as well.

And yes, most teachers (and as a HLTA top) will Work for part of their holidays but not all the time. A decent amount perhaps but lots of free time and lies in hopefully as well.

But you know what, the holidays are fab.

And if anyone is really so envious or them or begrudge teachers and school workers these holidays - well, the answer to that is: if it's all so fabulous and easy and full of benefits, simple. Retrain and become a teacher or school based worker. Then you get the holidays too!

And yes, like others I don't get paid for these holidays either. My salary is pro rata over 39 weeks and for just core hours. So this is actually unpaid leave not a paid holiday.

But that was what I accepted when I took the job.

Not one teacher or TA on my social media has said that they work harder than anyone else or deserve holidays more than anyone else. Obviously they are happy to have broken up - how many people aren't happy to be starting their holiday from work?!?!

And yes, other jobs may have longer hours and also have stresses and targets. Dh is a solicitor and works longer hours in the office (though rarely works at home) and has targets (different types to mine have been, more financial based in his case) and has stresses (clients, other partners, department stuff, etc) and he only gets 30 days holiday but he has other perks - a massively different bring home pay, corporate events, golf days, meals out, etc.

We all make choices. Dh would hate my job and would hate teaching. He says find he would it far more stressful than his current job and he wouldn't do it for the pay anyway!