to go on holiday with my chicken pox ridden DC?

[NighteyesLovesGingerbread]

Basically my DC all have chicken pox. we are due to go on holiday in 2 days.

my friend has just said ' I hope you have insurance now you wont be going away' and then proceeded to tell me how unreasonable I was being when I said we were still going and how dangerous it is for others. I am well aware of this, I have several extended family members who are immune-compromised so understand the risks to them.

we are driving to the holiday destination and staying in a stand alone private house with private pool. obviously I will not take DC into the service stations or supermarkets etc but as far as I can see there is no reason for us not to go as they wont be in contact with anyone other than us.

so, AIBU to still go on holiday in this situation.

Seriously, the OP's children sound as infectious as they can be at the moment.
I'm on x3 different immuno suppressant meds, I have no choice I have to take these meds on a daily basis.

The OP seems ok with exposing people like me to a risk of catching her children's disease when all medical evidence is suggesting it is contagious.
It seems incredibly selfish when it is something that an insurance company would likely reimburse for.

Seriously the OP's kids dont sound very infectious at all. If you have that type of illness then maybe taking precautions is what you need to do. I dont see why a minority, and i say that with the utmost respect, should stop the norm.

Another point the chicken pox immunisation doesn't 'stop' you from catching it. My family have had it, yet still caught it but a relatively mild version.

What precautions can I take? Realistically please tell me, as I would like to understand what more I should be doing?
Uncrusted spots are infectious.

Crustaway.

Have you ever considered that you may need to reconsider how you asses whether someone is over a virus or not?

Possibly a stupid question, but does the air system on the chunnel work on an individual carriage basis or across the whole train? If it's the latter, there's a much bigger problem than the one family she's willing to potentially infect.

What precautions can I take? Realistically please tell me, as I would like to understand what more I should be doing?

You should hide away inside away from all other human contact.

Because apparently it's normal to not give a flying fuck about the wider comunity just so you can parade infectious people around.

Same goes for all other vulnerable people and well all children because you never know if yours is going to be the one that ends up with one of the complications.

Fuck it every body stay indoors just so the tiny minority of people with potentially dangerous infections can roam freely without being hindered by infectious diseases

"being in the same room as someone who has chickenpox for at least 15 minutes
This is because the virus can spread through the air, in tiny droplets from an infected person"

taken from:

www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2586.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=137

So, you shouldn't be travelling on the channel tunnel with other people.

Op, if you are not taking other people into consideration, at least consider your own children. I remember how unwell I was with chicken pox. The very thought of riding for hours in an auto while feeling ill, headachey and itchy is torture. Most children will want to be among their own things and beds when sick, not in unfamiliar places.

OP, i bet you wished you hadnt started this thread with such a high numbers of of whom i call the pessimistic tradgemi out in force who arent really in touch with normal reality.

GO, your childrens skin wont fall off nor will they get an infection from a car seat, i doubt you kill anyone either in transit or when at the destination.

Son is 17, had chicken pox, I never ever really knew anything other than a few spots occurring. Son has major allergies and an epi pen, has asthma, has dermatitis. Never once has he been a victim. He OVERCOMES things in a positive way. So to all you pathetic dying swans that get ridiculous...

GET OVER YOURSELVES and stop exaggerating, hyperventilating and live.

Well if Crust's sheer mentalness doesn't convince OP she is unreasonable no one else will

Oh Crusts, I would get angry, but you are clearly such a complete doofus, that I don't think I can bring myself to, it would be like getting angry with a kitten with it's head stuck in a jam jar.

Fwiw - chickenpox can be a few spots and very mild, it can be hundreds of spots and very uncomfortable with very bad flu like symptoms.

It can have horrendous knock on effects (yes, even death) even in people with no underlying conditions.

For people with underlying conditions and suppressed immunity it can be fatal - people with suppressed immunity and underlying conditions can have these all their lives, it is unreasonable in the extreme to expect them to stay home on the off chance that they may meet someone with chickenpox.

All the medical advice for chickenpox quarantine is to stay away from the public for 5/6 days until all the spots are crusted, his is because it is extremely contagious via airborne means or touch. 5/6 days of staying away from the public is not a big ask in the grand scheme of things - this is why the onus is on the person with chicken pox, rather than asking the rest of society to stay home, because someone would like to take their little one to the shops or on holiday - as this would be rather silly.

The op says the spots came out on DC1 3 days ago and on the other two today. so none of them have crusted over so 2 of her children have only just got chicken pox, meaning they will be highly infectious in 2 days time, and she can't know now how I'll they will be feeling with it. It's not about saying she isn't a caring mother, I'm sure she is lovely - but on day 1 of chicken pox, you can't predict how poorly they are going to bevelling by day 3.

Why are you putting your ill children through this it's completely unescessary. They will be feverish and sore - a long car journey will be he'll surely they just need rest and fluids.
I'm in Spain right now and it's nearly 40 degrees my skin is itchy and sweaty, heat will just exacerbate symptoms...
Also there is a big chance you will infect someone else. When my DHs children and ex wife got it years ago abroad they had to stay on holiday for an extra week until symptoms had cleared. This is for good reason.

I agree slightly with crusts.

I'd love some actually figures and stats though as I admit I'm not upto speed with actual data.

How many people have never had cp? Certainly when I was little everyone got it and encouraged their families to get it.

If immunosuppressed ..does it matter if you've had Cp before or is that irrelevant if immunosuppressed? What I mean is that I know very few people in real life who haven't had CP or haven't acquired immunity from a silent infection- does that not feature of you are immunosuppressed? (Genuine question)

How many of those above actually get infected and how many of those actually get ill?

There's talk of the risk to pregnant women etc again but what are the stats as most women would have had it I'm sure and of those who haven't it's only a risk during one trimester. So the odds of someone being next to you, having never had it and being at a particular point in pregnancy all lower the risk.

I don't expect anyone to have the stats as such im just not convinced on the scare type posting (which is based on real scenarios I appreciate) - I'm not convinced the overall risks are as big and real as people make out on here.

I'll be honest, I don't know a single person in real life who would cancel a holiday on a plane for CP, never mind a car. Not saying it's right but genuinely I don't think many would. Many families, particularly this time of year buy holidays in advance, with free child places, discounts etc so even if insurance pay out, the likelihood of getting anything similar is low. Again I'm not agreeing as such but I think mumsnet gives a false impression and that probablY based on people's own bad experiences.

In RL I think many people still view it as a simple childhood illness and rarely think anything more of it as many kids don't even notice they've had it. Dd1 was fine and dd2 is immune having had a silent infection without me even knowing it.

For those who are at risk, I'm afraid I would sadly be taking my own precautions and not relying on other parents, many of whom probably don't understand the dangers as let's face it, even gps don't make a big deal about it.

I'm not saying that it's right for the responsibility to rely with others...clearly that's unfair but given I don't believe many would cancel a holiday in this situation, then I'd protect myself.

In your case though OP I would definitely go if your kids are upto it. Did certainly was and felt fine after a day or so. (As a side note, her nursery didn't even call me about the cp. they just told me at the end of the day so clearly even some nurseries still don't consider it a huge deal).

My perfectly healthy dd2 had it at a year old. She was so poorly and ended up on a drip in hospital because of a secondary infection. We thought we might lose her at one point.

Anyone willing to infect others is selfish.

Buttercup.

You would ether be prevented from boarding a plane or escorted off it it wouldn't be your own choice.

Crusts
Thanks for being sad for my loss. (My DS "could" have died but due to the NHS he didn't!)
But others could. If people are immunosuppressed they do take precautions. (We stayed away from crowded shops and no trains, planes or automobiles!)
But chicken pox can be life threatening. If you know your child has it and contagious then bloody isolate them. Thereby not killing anyone. Simples.

If you are immunosuppressed then previously having had it makes no difference. A simple way of putting it is your immune system does not work

Note to anyone who may be reading: please don't take medical advice from crustsaway. She doesn't know the infectious period of chicken pox and worst of all, she is comparing allergies and asthma to being immunocompromised. She knows nowt except how to be goady.

I hope she or someone she loves doesn't get an autoimmune disease (there are hundreds) or needs cancer treatment. Although, given that 1 in 3 will have cancer in their lifetime, it is actually highly likely that she may face this. It's unlikely to aid her in her empathy-less plight but I live in hope.

I think the OP has got a bit lost in the frankly bizarre turn the thread took.

OP I do sympathise with you but I have to agree the recycled air situation and the open car windows in the Tunnel is a risk. You can't control who's in that carriage with you or for how long and that relatively close and warm environment will heighten the risk.

You have two choices I can see. You can decide that you will take the risk of infecting people. That's not a choice mumsnet threads will generally support you in taking but in the real world people make that choice all the time - which is why chicken pox is endemic and why the immunosuppressed suffer serious consequences as a result. Realistically though you'll never know what the consequences are and the invisible nature of infectious chicken pox pre spots means that nobody ever knows for sure where they got it. The trouble with this choice obviously is that you choose to run a risk that doesn't affect you. Kind of a tricky moral position but if you do it you certainly won't be alone.
The other choice is to send one parent and 1 day 5 child on the planned day and you and two children follow on in a few days. It will cost more but the kids will be more comfortable on the journey, you'll only lose a little holiday and you can be sure you haven't risked anybody else's life in the process..

Incidentally a poster below asked how many women haven't had CP. It's actually a risk in both the first and later third trimesters. 1st trimester the effects are like rubella and it can cause miscarriage although that's very rare. That said there's a poster on this thread who says that happened to them. Then if the baby is born with chicken pox it can be very serious too. I actually know two women who contracted CP in pregnancy. Fortunately both were mid pregnancy and the babies were unharmed. Pregnancy disrupts your immune system too of course and if it's your second or subsequent child you are around small kids a lot. I also know somebody who's newborn caught chicken pox from the older child. Fortunately no ill effects occurred. We absolutely SHOULD vaccinate. It's absurd that we don't and if I was having any more I would vaccinate them. Not that that would help them if they ever become immunosuppressed. At that point you become totally vulnerable to other people's choices and I'm sure we've all made choices that we've then looked back on and thought 'yikes that was a bit daft of me' I know I have.

Sensible post fromNorthernlurker.
When I posted early in the thread, I didn't know about having to leave windows open on the tunnel train.
It's easy to dismiss a risk as minuscule when it's not you or your family's health that's at risk.

I would go in your place. All my ds have had chicken pox. Luckily they have all had it very mild and pox scabbed over in 4 days from out break. One only had 4 days off daycare as spots appeared fully on the Friday afternoon and they were scabbed by Wed so daycare assessed him and took him. None of my dc were ill or very scratchy. They spent most of time playing in the garden.

So I would go on your holiday if they are well in themselves. Keep them in the car in the tunnel with windows closed. Job done