To think that they aren't mortified later and don't realise they were out of line?

[KateLennard]

A lot of the time, specially with regard to children, when people who don't have children are rude or judgemental.

Or expect you to leave your breast fed two week old with babysitters for their wedding/party.

Or tell you that they won't parent like you.

That we comfort ourselves by thinking 'when they have children they will realise, be mortified'

There are always loads of posts on mumsnet saying this when someone is in a difficult situation.

Aibu to think that if people are so thick skinned as to make massive judgements about others and tell them so, then they are not going to turn round one day, even if they have their own kids and go;
'Oh no, I was so judgemental, I realise I was wrong'

And for that type of person they are always going to be right and there will never be a sudden insight into their past behaviour.

Would love to hear that I am wrong but it just seems unlike to me.

Attended my SILs wedding with a 10 month old and 2.5 year old - thought we were being fussy about well everything (we were trying to ensure 2.5 yo napped so not whingy). No outright comments, we just had the general feeling that they thought we were fussing too much.

4 years later at another family wedding when she'd a 1 & 3 year old she apologised that she'd had no idea at her wedding how it took effort to manage them well for that sort of situation, and now she did.

So it can happen...

I disagree with the way lots of people "parent" their kids - but would not say a word to them unless it was dangerous (the baby bouncer ON the table sis - really?!?)

I make judgements all the time, just don't say it out loud very often.

Those who judge out loud will often be judged by others in turn, what goes around comes around - so I don't really care them/us about having insight later etc...

(about them/us)

Cumsanct that's great. Glad to hear it does happen.

Somewhere it seems there are so many posts on here saying 'they will realise, they will be mortified.

I just think that kind of judgemental person rarely is, though as per cumsanct it obviously can happen.

I don't think many people will actually admit they were wrong, but I do think many do probably realise.

Is this a TAAT??

I get where you are coming from OP.

I didn't have a clue about kids before I had them and probably thought that they can be more easily left.

Leaving aside the emotional attachment

As for the rock hard boobs when late for a feed.

Let's say that I understood the theory of that one, but OMG did it suprise me how soon it kicked in & with what a vengence!

But I do think if childless folks keep on & on with suggestions as to what the parents could/should do because they obviously know better, then they might not be the apologising type!

I think there are some who are judgemental and won't change, some who genuinely won't encounter the same issues and a lot who just don't have a clue because they haven't experienced it themselves. We had a child free wedding for example, no one complained or didn't come, but I genuinely didn't realise how tricky it can be with childcare etc, I would be much better informed now.

Ah, just found the relevant thread.

I've had a couple of people admit to it. We were the first among friends to have children and have never actually encountered vocal judginess (our friends are great!). As more people have had kids, I can think of at least 3 that have admitted that they used to be very judgemental - not necessarily of us in particular - of people with kids and have now learnt their lesson and feel mortified. So I think it does happen. Although it's possible that the kind of person who actually thinks that its acceptable to say these things out loud to parents might not have the same sensitivity!

What I do disagree with is that we were all the same pre-kids, I've never been particularly judgemental of parents/children. It helps that I became an aunt at 15 so saw my sister coping and realised that it was very hard work!

It really isn't a thread about a specific thread. I have just seen it said so many times on mumsnet about pretty much anything child related; beast feeding, tantrums, state of house, diet of children, discipline, wedding invites, party invites, evenings out etc.
So was just wondering if these people do 'eventually realise'?

I am mortified by the private judgements I made about my sil's parenting. I truly believe you are a better parent when you aren't one! Before kids I would be horrified at x,y,z but then found myself doing the same with good reason.

There's a lesson about all judgements here, everyone does stuff for a reason, a mile in someone else's shoes and that....

I know I was pretty judgemental about where you should BF. I mean, really! In a meeting (in your own home) with your accountant!

I now think I was wrong about that, having BF three DC in various and sundry places...

Almamatyre that's my point, about the kind of people who feel free to actually say these things to the person they are judging, and see that sure they are right about a subject (children) that they have no experience of.

I should add that I have a ds with special needs and of course most of the people judging there are never going to find out how that feels!

Jellyrain and sanityclause but did you actually tell those people how wrong they were? That is what tips it over for me into utter arrogance.

Diddle exactly 'not the apologising type!'

"beast feeding"

I judge all parents who beast feed their children, I'm afraid.

to be fair so would I!

I'm not sure if this is quite what you mean, but I am embarrassed by what I blurted out to a friend who announced her pregnancy to me this week - she's 12 weeks along and I said "ooh you can't be, you're so slim!"

Said friend is nearly 40 and, as I'd suspected, has been trying for a bloody long time and has some health issues which affect her weight and probably conception.

It was stupid and insensitive of me. In my defence, I'm heavily pregnant, and get ridiculously fat when pregnant. But I was trying really hard not to say "that's brilliant and I know you've been trying forever" because she'd never actually told me.

So I definitely do have conversations which I rethink later and worry about what I've said!

Shootthemoon I have loads of conversations where I worry about what I said and often apologise to people just in vas I said the wrong thing
But what I don't do is tell people that they are doing (anything) all wrong and I know how they should do it better!

With regard to the wedding/breastfeeding thread, I was totally clueless about babies when I got married. I really had no idea. Nobody in my family ever breastfed and I had no direct experience of it. If someone had said, "We can't make your wedding because we have a baby and we're breastfeeding", I might well have looked at them blankly. I might even have said, "But can't you give them bottles just for one day" .

I also had no concept of the bond between a mother and a new baby and probably wouldn't have understood that a mother might not want to be separated from her baby for such a long day and evening.

I had no awareness of how tired you are when you have a baby and that a mother is likely to have have a very early morning (after maybe a broken night's sleep) and not have the energy to keep going until late in the night.

These things weren't issues at my wedding but if they had been, I well have been judgemental (perhaps not out loud but definitely in my head).

In general terms, I probably wouldn't have appreciated that when children get tired, they get whiny and bad-tempered. I might have made the assumption that the children were simply badly behaved.

I didn't have much awareness of SN children and how bad behaviour may be a symptom of a condition and not due to bad parenting.

I'm happy to say that I'm a lot more understanding about babies and children now and a lot slower to make assumptions.

I am yet to find these repentant judges! Last night a good friend (and a new mum) told me in a very judgemental voice she thought only one person from each family should go out to work as the children need someone at home.....
She knows I have always worked and so has my partner. Don't know what she's hoping to achieve - but the judging lives on!

KateLennard, you're right, there is a difference! I worry sometimes as I'm not always the most socially astute. I do have very strong opinions about parenting and the choices we've made - but I definitely don't preach about it. I worry that sometimes when people ask my opinion that I sound a bit preachy but I try to frame it as 'this is what worked for us'. But pretty much always end up second guessing what I've said!

I have a friend who tends to lead her life by following examples of what friends and family have done. She can get very preachy about the superior things her family have chosen. It's all so she can make a plan about how she'll live her life one day when she has children.But she has three close friends (inc me) who have children at similar ages and we've all made radically different parenting choices. It sends her into a complete spin because they're all contradictory (attitudes to food, sleep, weaning, behaviour, discipline etc). At the moment I'm 'winning' because my child is easiest as a 4yo and has the most advanced language and motor skills. She was always giving me advice when DC was a baby because DC never bloody slept. It will change again as the DC grow up, I'm sure, because they all develop at different rates.

It's actually hilarious to me as I can see her getting confused and stressed about, say, our decisions on car seats being different. She hasn't quite realised that we're all just muddling along according to the needs of our children and lives and that we are not working to some great Code of Parenting which will dictate the successful lives of our children.

I genuinely can't wait until she has kids. I'm going to have sooo much fun

My Dbro and SIl were very judgmental.

They wouldn't let anyone look after their dc until they were at least 4 at all. SIL would stay home and the house would be perfect all the meals cooked from scratch, pack drbo off with a healthy lunch everyday. The kids would be perfect as they know how to make kids act perfect. Their kids would never be fussy eaters. SIL would bask in the glow of being a sahm with the perfect house, clean kids who always do as they are asked and sleep perfectly.

3 years later it hasn't worked out that way at all. Dbro and Sil will not admit they were judgmental at all. The kids regularly stay over at grandparents for whole weekends.

But i do find it funny to watch when my gorgeous nephew completely ignores them and won't eat what they want him to. I don't laugh in front of them. just to myself. Parenting is hard, they don't need me reminding them they were dick a few years ago.

Despite their judgey pants I do like them and often take their kids to mine to help them out. But it would be better if people stopped judging, especially when they haven't been there.

Op, agree with you, in my experience, such people when they have DCs have "special" ones - if their DCs can't fit with an adult routine, it's not like your DCs who were expected to, theirs can't because of XYZ which is totally different. If their DCs are hard to leave, it's because of ABC which is unique to their situation and it's a sign that it's hard for all parents to leave small babies and so they were out of line to expect you to do it...

My SIL has yet to acknowledge expecting me to find childcare for her Friday wedding (so the non-invited friends and family members on my side who might have had DC1 would be at work) in less than 2 weeks when she uninvited DC1 to the wedding as he might cry (after being assured by BIL several times that DC1 would be welcome) was unreasonable. But you see, I'd gone back to work at that point (he was 18 months) and while I was using a nursery, obviously DC1 was used to being left with strangers so it shouldn't have been a big deal for me to find someone/anyone and I was faffing. (In the end we paid £150 to a nanny of a NCT friend who didn't work on Fridays - and the timing of the wedding and location meant I couldn't just use DC1's nursery for an extra day as I couldn't get back in time for pick up and was expected to be there in the evening)

Whereas she was a SAHM from birth so obviously when she was expected to find childcare for her DC1 for a Saturday wedding with 6 months notice (with neither of the grandparents away or invited so she could have easily asked either) it was a big deal because her DC1 wasn't used to being left so it was apparently a bigger problem than the 'easy' one I faced. They didn't go to the wedding.