To ask, how much are Mumsnetters owed in maintenence arrears?

[whothehellknows]

I know from previous threads that there are lots of us on MN with ExP's that do anything they can to avoid maintenence.

Last night in a fit of ire (because ExP who "can't afford to pay maintenence" told me about how he's looking to buy a fucking boat) I used the CMS calculator to double check how much he should have been paying all this time. In total, our kids have missed out on over £6000 in payments in two years. The number really shook me. I'm sitting here thinking how many times I've cried in desperation trying to make ends meet, worked overtime, sold my stuff and gone without to take care of my kids. What a difference that money could have made.

I know it's a broken record, but I can't help but think that lone parents would need a lot less help from the state if NRP's had to step up and pay for their kids.

So out of curiosity, more than anything else, I'm wondering how much mumsnetters have had to make do without-- I'm betting it's a mind blowing amount.

If your ex should be paying and isn't, how much has he managed to dodge?

It's definitely a feminist issue, the only reason they're allowed to get away with it because they're mostly men and the victims of their financial abuse are mostly women and children.

Remember when all those Scottish "No" voters put themselves back on the electoral register after years, having removed themselves when the poll tax was introduced? They'd never bothered to go back on again because until the idea of a Scottish state with socialist values was on offer, there was nothing worth voting for.

One council has said it will pursue them for back poll tax, due from about 20 years ago. I don't know if they will do it, but they can consider it, it is an option, they think it's worth doing and putting resources into it. That's how powerful the state is, when it wants people to pay things it thinks they should pay.

And yet nothing can be done about men not paying women and children. Nothing, nada, zilch. Because the state doesn't really think women and children have the right to money from men. That's what it comes down to.

Feminist issue? You betcha.

Agree Basil and I wonder how many of the MP's and staff at Westminster-across the board are avoiding paying for their children & I bet that helps colour their views!

Absolutely a feminist issue. There is this underlying, insidious idea "Oh but she'll only spend it on herself" - implying women are all about handbags, shoes and make up. Whereas men are "sensible" and "practical". I think that is the hidden, underlying cultural stereotype we're up against, here. It is not important as who's to guarantee we'd spend it on the kids, anyway.

Yet of course kids grow, eat, use electricity, need hair cuts, outgrow shoes, have to go on school trips and, when they hit teenage years - want nice clothes, etc, not handmedowns... Somehow, the woman's income is automatically to be consumed by all this whilst men can actually "spend it on themselves", start new families, or travel and do self indulgent crap.

I have often thought I should start itemising what the kids cost me. (If only I had the time!) But just build a simple website, anonymously, and start documenting the cost of everything - right down to the last bit of electricity - then build a 'bill' for my ex, from there. After a year I will plaster it with his name, photo and address. And out the church who knew he was living the life of Reilly and not paying a penny for his kids, and bombarding me with threatening emails but appeared as character witnesses in court for him as he'd promised to leave his considerable fortune - to them. Expose not only the abusive male, but those who enable the behaviour. If hundreds of thousands of (mainly) women all over the UK did the same - we'd have a powerful voice, surely.

Truth is, Westminster doesn't give a flying feck because as long as we're footing the bill, they can file us under "S" for "suckers". And get back down the golf club with their maintenance-avoiding mates.

Joffrey I'd use that website!!!

I'm battling with an ex who is OBSESSED who how I am spending the "kids money" and depriving them of his support.

I am clearly living the high life < looks at 5 year old shoes & ebay bargain wardrobe> so he has thrown a hissy fit & stopped my maintenance just because HE has been an absolute arse with DS & so contact has stopped for a while (DS's choice) and he is of the pay per view mentality. I can't really manage without it but DS is in last year of school and now turned 18 so I am torn between persuing ex by legal means and saying stuff you & enjoying going totally NC.

Although maintenance is for the RP to use as she/he needs for the Dc, I would have gladly agreed to a separate fund that I had no direct cash access to to use for school trip payments, shoes, clothes etc if it made the situation any easier. Such a bloody drama all.the.fucking.time.

It is what it boils down to isn't it. They cant bare the thought that you might actually personally benefit from THEIR money. The kids having a shit life because of it is neither here nor there.

This thread is really making my blood boil. I have linked it to my divorce drama thread. I said upthread that I know a journalist, I don't think this is her "specialism" as it were, but she might be able to point me in the right direction. I will find out and report back.

If I inflicted the level of emotional and financial neglect on my children as my ex-twunt has, I'd be arrested and they'd be taken into care. These fuckers can do it day in and day out and nobody says a bloody word!!

If we agree that not paying maintenence for your child is financial abuse and child neglect, perhaps what we need to do is campaign for non-payment to be made a distinct category of domestic abuse and therefore a criminal offence. It should be as shameful to not provide for your children as it is to harm them in any other way, not something that these deadbeats boast about down the pub.

You know I can't help feeling the collection success rates from NRP would go through the roof if your child maintainance level was calculated and paid by the government and then collected off the NRP.

I should imagine defaulting in those circumstances would carry much harsher penalties.

I do agree that the language we should be using is 'child neglect and financial abuse'. It accurately describes what not meeting your financial responsibilities to your children amounts to.

Yep, exactly what Sweary Sweary said above. How can it not be abuse to withhold money from your child?

The system we have in place now is fundamentally unjust and we need a campaign.

If I took it upon myself to, say, not feed and clothe my children because I'd rather spend my money down the pub, I would be, rightly,had up on a charge. Just because you don't live in the same household doesn't mean you aren't equally responsible for their welfare.

I want to see individuals who refuse to maintain their children treated as the criminals they are.

Deeznutz Isn't that what the CSA/CMS is supposed to be? They are "the government" in this context and spectacularly useless.

I don't think you understood my point.

If CSA / CMS represents "the government" in this instance, it does make me wonder if any other government service is as spectacularly unsuccessful as is evidenced in this thread.

And why (and how) do so many people (largely men) feel that it's ok to behave in this way?

Another issue one of my friends has had to deal with is her already paltry child's maintainance being cut when her exh opted to have another family.

If you can't adequately support the children that were here first then don't go onto have others. If you do decide to have more children you and your new partner should deal with the financial implications of your choices. They shouldn't impact on pre-existing children.

I wholeheartedly agree with non/late/under payment being a continuation of abuse. NRP paying just under the right amount right on the 5th working day after payment is due. Not enough for CMO to chase but enough for the RP to worry if any money will arrive and never knowing how much is going to be received. I am fed up of nervously checking my account on midnight before payment is due, to see how much he deigns to pay that month. Is a disgrace.

" And why (and how) do so many people (largely men) feel that it's ok to behave in this way? "

I have no idea - and why do their new partners/wives support it? Are they feeding the new wives a total line?
Last time my ex saw the kids he 'did not like their coats' and stopped paying maintanance which at that point I had been receiving for a full year out of seven!
He hasnt seen them again either.

It is dv ad child negligence to avoid child support payments, directly, by going SE or working for family who fudge the figures.

" It is dv ad child negligence to avoid child support payments, "

and yet my ex thought he could side with SS against me, talking about what a terrible parent I am! And the social worker failed to see the irony of it!

That's an example of protection and further dv.

When we were going through the Family Courts - and he was going for residency - the solicitor and lawyer said to me very clearly that the fact he wasn't bothering to pay a penny for them was not seen as relevant, and that I better not mention it as it might even make the judge think I was bitter... So the irony is, totally neglecting to pay for your child (whilst living a life that is a constant round of pleasures, socialising, travelling the world etc) is not even seen as a negative thing that can and should count against the non resident parent...

To the point I couldn't mention he wasn't paying!

Now that is a sick and skewed situation. It should be mentioned, examined, and discussed as part of the picture if a parent refuses to pay a penny for their children - pleading poverty or whatever excuse. The CSA has utterly failed. I have often wondered if there isn't some form of redress for us to get together and sue the CSA or government, itself? They have failed my children, I know that.

ffs joffrey how galling.
What is howtorebuild?

There definitely needs to be a campaign on this. It's one I'd absolutely get behind (as a bloke). The cost to society (parents/children/taxpayers) is massive. I started a thread to get practical suggestions (and there were a couple of good ones)

I think the debate needs to take place in the context of the welfare budget (which is a hot topic) which is where some (but not all) of the slack is being picked up.

If MN is good for anything (other than pissing and whinging - and I love a good piss and whinge) it should be this. Harnessing the collective wisdom and experiences of this forum to bring about meaningful change would be truly worthwhile.

8k approx. We signed a statutory declaration in the end, at his request. I wouldn't claim child support and he wouldn't ask for access that he didn't want anyway. The 8k was worth every penny to just get rid of him.

£10,600 at the last count!
I've posted this before I'm sure, but when we separated, he saw DCs once a fortnight ,but a year later when I met my DP, he said "Well I'm not babysitting so you can go fuck your new boyfriend", and stopped all contact with DCs- they haven't seen him in around 5yrs now.
He's self employed as a taxi driver, and has an accountant who manages his income fiddles the books to say he earns such a pittance that he cannot afford to support his DCs in any way still hasn't stopped him having 3 more babies since