Tube drivers and their pay

[Flashbangandgone]

It makes me angry.... Surely tube drivers are paid far, far more than jobs with equivalent levels of responsibility, and they only get away with it because they can hold London to ransom... Do they have no shame!?

If it's that bloody desirable, that bloody easy and that bloody simple then perhaps you should all do it?

I agree it's not a race to the bottom, but £48k is a ridiculously high salary in consideration on the level of skill and training, as well as the numerous other benefits (more annual leave than the rest of the country's workforce for a start). The requirement to work evenings/nights/weekends is not unreasonable either given the service they provide.

They have grossly inflated salaries as a result of years of striking for grabby, spurious reasons at the most impactful times, and the position of power they hold over London because of the essential service they provide.

Fortunately for me, I was able to get to and from work today with no issues thanks to the driverless DLR....

They get paid more than a lot of hospital doctors, who work weekends xmas all day and night 12 hour shifts saving lives and stemming blood.

And significantly more than me (public sector science job, invisible to the public therefore no point striking).

I agree with right to strike but not striking because they can hold Londoners hostage.

I think London should bite the bullet and put tube drivers on fair contracts, that balance their pay and conditions.... Currently it's too much pay, for (arguably) too onerous conditions... If they won't be reasonable, TfL should train a 100s reserve tube drivers over a six month period (the time it takes drivers to be trained), and sack those that don't accept, replacing them with those recently trained (and those current drivers prepared to accept) a more reasonable deal.... London would then get the tube it needs and deserves... A 24 hour tube like all other major cities, more money for investment or lower fares... everyone then benefits not just a cadre of drivers.

This strike is about TFL not actually being ready for the night tube and wanting to blame it on the union action and everybody knows it. It is just game playing from both sides.

Tube drivers (who are not even the majority of people who work on the tube) are not overpaid. Nurses and teachers are underpaid. Good pay and strong unions are correlated.

Working on the tube is an option for everyone but of course it ties you to London. No moving out for house prices. Means early starts and late finishes and difficult journeys to them as the tube is shut and driving especially is incredibly dull. I am not sure why people begrudge a well paid job for working class people.

lagirafe I don't think anyone has said it's tube drivers' fault that police/forces can't strike; we're correcting the repeated comment that 'everyone has the right to strike.'

I totally agree with ChunkyPickle a tube driver is responsible for similar if not more passengers than a pilot but nobody is berating a pilots salary.

Factor in the risk of suicides imagine seeing somebody jump in front of your train and knowing that there is fuck all you can do to prevent it I think this is what is built into their salaries

Comparing driving a tube to the complexity of flying a plane is ridiculous

watching people with walking sticks and mobility problems trying to get around today was heartbreaking

I have zero sympathy with massively overpaid tube drivers being asked to modernise

As I understand it, they're not objecting to 24 hour working, they just want sensible staffing and rostering arrangements. Frankly, that's in all our interests

So the race to the bottom begins.

Let's see. What if MPs went on strike? Would anyone notice? Would you be up in arms?

I'm glad the tube drivers have a backbone. Everyone should try that.

What a ridiculous society this is becoming.

Everybody has a right to leave.

And who next? Your heart is bleeding about the nurses pay? I bet they'll be next, you know, the usual 'eating chocolate' etc crap.

Good on them. That's what collective organisation and solidarity can do, along with robust leadership.

I only wish my union were half as effective.

I 100% agree with you Margot

I hate this "race to the bottom" mentality.

I applaud the tube drivers. They have retained their unionised strength and are using it. Shame more industries sisn't do the same then we wouldn't be facing the disgrace of 0 hours contracts, gang masters and the "living" wage

Flashbang there must be a reason why Tfl don't (and never have) trained up new drivers on more flexible contracts. I wonder why? Maybe because they can't stop them then joining the unions?

Stopandlook, just to be clear, you've got no problem with the right to strike as long as the strikes don't affect anyone?

Oh hello MrsD! (What she said).

If my terms of service were unilaterally changed I would bloody well strike.

I'm torn on this. I agree that strong my unions are a good thing and think too many jobs have been run down in terms of pay and conditions.

On the other hand I do think tube drivers get pretty high pay and the bad terms and conditioned are balanced by good.

Of course people have the right to strike, just as the public have the right to decide whether or not they support the reason for the strike. And I don't think that it should be all 'good for them' if their pay means all ticket prices etc are higher - there's a balance of what's good for them and what's good for the wider population.

a tube driver is responsible for similar if not more passengers than a pilot but nobody is berating a pilots salary

Pilots require standards of mathematical and other skill, do a number of years at university, and pay very large sums for their training that they then pay off over time (much like doctors). Because the role is substantially more intellectually taxing and complex. They also work shifts.

How does the educational requirement and personal financial investment compare for train drivers?

The tube is vital... The drivers less so. Modern transit systems don't require drivers (the DLR didn't have any it was built in the 80s!) like modern buses don't need conductors.

Of course we could be Luddites and refuse to accept progress, and end up in a very different race to the bottom (of countries as we become backward).

Of course, if we wouldn't even have had tube if the views of some of the posters on here had prevailed over the centuries - we'd be trudging around by stagecoach afraid that coachmen would lose their jobs, a bizarre little third world country in a crazy time warp surrounded by 21st century technology.

So Hermione you know exactly what is involved in driving a tube. Pilots can fly and land virtually in autopilot mode so you don't think a tube driver is responsible for getting passengers safely from A to B like a pilot. I think your comments patronise anybody who has passenger welfare to consider

I doubt very much that the price you pay on the train ticket (mine gas gone up from £3.60 to £12 over a decade) is due to the staff costs.

The jobs are available to all. If they're so cushy and require do little brains, I wonder half the people on MN these past few days haven't applied yet.

Tube worker here. I want to make some points:

1. I don't know why the public thinks only train ops are on strike. 20k station, train and engineering staff walked out.
2. Its not about the money but TfL are telling people it is, which is why they thought we'd be swayed by a last minute conditional offer on Monday. Its about imposing rosters without true consultation. TfL announced the Night Tube on the same day as announcing 900 job losses and promised its staff to talk and listen to us on our thoughts on changes to come. Instead they just told us whats what and we were expected to swallow it.
3. I joined in 2002. The new arrangements legally require me to sign a new contract but none has been forthcoming.
4. There are no other jobs with a similar skill set in a similar industry so the argument of "Don't like it, leave" doesn't hold water. Transport is suffering cost cutting just like every other.
5. We work shifts, starting 24 hours a day. We are trying to ask TfL to agree with us a policy so that work doesn't overtake our lives to maintain a work/life balance. Most parents would want to spend some time with their kids. Thd new rosters prevent that.
6. We do get 10 weeks holiday a year but we work 40 hour weeks bank 3.5 hours a week towards holiday. Our actual holiday is 6 weeks, the rest is hours worked in lieu.
7. The night tube will reduce time spent maintaining the infrastructure, which is minimally maintained anyway. When there is a derailment or train crash the unions will say Told You So.
8. We are acting for your safety. More antisocial hours on a reduced payroll and staffing levels will lead to more tired staff and more room for dangerous errors.
9. Stop complaining. If you want more money and better conditions, join a union. Striking is a good bargaining tool to raise standards.

Nice to see you believe everything you read in the papers. This strike is not about money. It is about management trying to change our working agreements. One roster I've seen previously worked nights twice in a year, on the new one 17 times. That's not a small change. Yes the job is well paid but we are not the highest paid drivers. You also realise that it's not just the drivers who were on strike today don't you? Virtually all grades have united for the first time since 2002 to fight this. Which might tell you how important this issue is to us.
And as I always say to those who complain that it's an easy job for too much money, feel free to apply and do the job yourself. It's not news that rail staff are well paid. That's why I quit my pgce and applied 10 years ago, because I wanted a secure job which paid enough for me to be able to live comfortably.