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Original poster

i am loathing the gradual creep of the term 'gotten' on here

291 replies

FrankietheSquealer · 09/07/2015 17:07

Please desist

OP posts:
treaclesoda · 09/07/2015 20:54

'Are you hungry?'
'No, I've already ate'

would be a perfectly normal and standard exchange in Northern Ireland. As would the term 'yous'. Grin

pedanticcitnadep · 09/07/2015 20:57

'gotten' and 'can I get' and 'I'm good' are all irritating to some people because they're associated with a certain kind of wannabe-American-itis

I understand people use them anyway and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with 'gotten', for instance. It's when they're used by someone who you suspect watches rather a lot of US TV and thinks it makes them sound a bit exotic and American that they're a bit irritating.

People who use 'myself' to sound more pompous and business like (like in The Apprentice) are irritating too, but not everyone who uses 'myself' uses it like that at all.

I think a lot of words like that can be irritating not because of the words themselves but because of what we perceive the motives of the people who use them to be. I wonder if people used to feel like that about 'OK'?

dementedma · 09/07/2015 21:00

"I've went" is horribly common here in Scotland and sets my teeth on edge

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:11

I use "gotten" on a near-daily basis, but I'm American. I was aware that British people don't use it often, but had no idea it was offensive/irritating.

We use it as the past participle of "get", as in "I have gotten a pie"; the past simple of "get" is "got", and the meaning is a little bit different: "I got a pie" is slightly different in meaning from "I have gotten a pie", so it just feels...wrong to me to use "got" as a past participle. I didn't realize that British people don't use "gotten" until I actually found myself in England. I was very surprised because Shakespeare and other British authors I'd read in school used "gotten"...

From now on, I'll feel a little uncomfortable using "gotten" in conversation with British people.

RagstheInvincible · 09/07/2015 21:12

It's the one Americanism that really pisses me off. Dunno why but there you are.

RealHuman · 09/07/2015 21:15

I don't think anyone minds Americans using it, do they? It's only when it's a British person using it that other people think it's affected and that they're pretending to be something they're not (even though some British dialects do use it as people have vigoeously pointed out Grin)

TheChandler · 09/07/2015 21:16

pedant 'gotten' and 'can I get' and 'I'm good' are all irritating to some people because they're associated with a certain kind of wannabe-American-it is

That's true Pedant. Its like when you were at school and one lucky person in your class went on a two week break to Florida, and came back talking in a put-on American accent because they thought it was cool.

Its cringeworthy to hear.

SenecaFalls · 09/07/2015 21:22

It's not an Americanism. It's an older English form that came over with the colonists; we kept it (as we did "fall" for autumn) but it fell out of use in Britain. It's a small reference to our shared linguistic history.

treaclesoda · 09/07/2015 21:26

I often see words and phrases referred to on MN as Americanisms yet they are very standard, traditional, speech in Ireland and Scotland.

Does anyone know why language would have fallen out of use in England but remained constant in Ireland and Scotland?

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:28

Haha, "pisses me off" is an Americanism. "Pissed" for drunk is very British.

But "gotten" isn't an Americanism! It was imported to America by the colonists! So a British person using it would not sound affected, just...a bit old school, right?

I'll accept "pissed off" and "selfie" and "froyo" and "elevator" on behalf of my countrymen, but "gotten" came from you guys.

SwedishEdith · 09/07/2015 21:32

"Pissed off" is an Americanism? I always though Americans said "pissed" when they meant "pissed off" (British usage). I've read that Americans have started to add the "off" but thought this was recent - Americans using Britishisms?

SenecaFalls · 09/07/2015 21:34

Americans have been saying "pissed off" for a long time. "Pissed" is just a shorter form and works because Americans don't use "pissed" to mean drunk.

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:35

"Pissed off" and "pissed" both mean very angry and are used interchangeably in the US, but are considered a mild profanity. I have only heard British people saying that someone is "pissed" when they mean he is drunk, and it doesn't seem to be regarded as offensive speech like "pissed off" is in the US. But correct me if I'm wrong: this sort of thing fascinates me.

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:38

SwedishEdith, Americans use a lot of Britishisms because your language was imported by the British colonists.

Did you know that the American Southern accent is believed by many academics to be closest to what Shakespearean English sounded like?

SwedishEdith · 09/07/2015 21:42

Oh, thank you Seneca and emily - all very interesting.

But, am I right that Americans don't use "taking the piss" ie making fun of someone or taking advantage of them?

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:46

No, we don't use "taking the piss" at all, and it baffled me the first time I heard it. We only use "pissed (off)" to mean that someone is really angry.

SenecaFalls · 09/07/2015 21:49

When I was a student in the UK, it took me a while to figure out what "taking the piss" meant. The first time I heard it I thought it was a Scottish way of saying taking a piss. Grin

ConferencePear · 09/07/2015 21:56

While we're at it may I have a moan about the use of coworker ? Whatever happened to colleagues ?
I always read co-workers something agricultural.

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 21:57

Seneca, I learned about "pissed" before I left the US. I was in "university" (see what I did there?) and on a date with an Irish guy; I really liked him and thought it was going well. We had some drinks one night and then went on a night walk, and I remarked, "You seem quiet", and he replied, "I'm just a little bit pissed". I was really hurt because I liked him and thought the date was going really well, and didn't understand why he was angry. So I abruptly announced that it was best I go home, and flagged a taxi. He called later to find out what had gone wrong...

OhMittens · 09/07/2015 21:58

emily People do use "pissed" in the UK as short for "pissed off", but you're right, it is more commonly used to describe inebriated. However it's becoming more popular. Laziness?!

Saying someone is pissed as in drunk is considered mild to moderately offensive. I wouldn't say "he was pissed" in front of my granny but I would likely say it in conversation with my friends or siblings. It's more of word used in conversation with peers than anyone. Outside my social circle I would just use the word drunk.

"Piss off/pissed off" is swearing, but oddly,"Piss off" with a smile in response to a statement can be (in some unique situations) affectionate or funny. Affectionate: Friend 1: "Have you lost weight? you look great". Friend 2: "Piss off". However this doesn't mean, piss off. It means "I have lost a few pounds, thanks for noticing". It's a kind of shy modesty disguised as an insult.

Funny: If two people have had a heated debate about something, one might break the atmosphere by offering a brew. Other person might say "piss off" with a smile. This means "go ahead and brew up, it's a truce". But "piss off" without a smile means, get lost.

I find it fascinating too Smile

SenecaFalls · 09/07/2015 22:00

emily And I thought the guy I was talking with was referring to my bathroom toilet habits. Divided by a common language indeed. Smile

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 22:05

Does anyone think the origin of "taking the piss" has anything to do with chamber pots? Like, "Oh, I'm not here because I seriously care to hear you talk, I'm just taking the piss".

ConferencePear, do you have American colleagues who say "coworker"? I think we use both, but it could be regional (I'm from the East Coast).

TheChandler · 09/07/2015 22:06

Seneca It's not an Americanism. It's an older English form that came over with the colonists; we kept it (as we did "fall" for autumn) but it fell out of use in Britain. It's a small reference to our shared linguistic history.

That would arguably now qualify it as an Americanism. If it has gone out of use here and is (arguably) imported back to the UK.

I'm not sure I believe it was ever in wide use all over the UK at any one time. It sounds totally wrong if you elongate a long verb in Danish or Norse, which would have been the main language influences on much of Northern England and south Scotland and which can still be seen in patterns of speech today? Is it used in Yorkshire? I can imagine it being used with the prefix "be" ie "begotten" but not on its own.

emilywrites · 09/07/2015 22:15

I don't know, Chandler. I think it was fairly widespread in Elizabethan England. But now I really want to know, and am googling. I really want to find out.

murmuration · 09/07/2015 22:18

I'm a bit confused -- can someone please let a poor American know what the British use is? For example, I would say:

"Yesterday, I got apples at the store"
"In previous weeks, I have gotten bananas at the store".

Would you say "In previous weeks, I have got bananas at the store"? That sounds completely wrong to me. Or am I misunderstanding?