A decent budget for low paid workers.

[Sickoffrozen]

Aibu to think that overall the budget was good news for the low paid with a big increase in minimum wages announced?

Seems like a decent idea to me.

But I stand to be corrected.....

"Time for bed." Said Zebedee.

"is the system trapping people in poverty?"

Top up benefits? No.

They're the benefits that make working possible for people who currently are not able to work full time hours and/or in better paid jobs.

They're the benefits that enable lone patents to transition gradually into full time work as their children get older and childcare becomes more manageable.

They're the benefits that allow people to study and survive on part time wages so they can get out of poverty.

They're the benefits that support the unskilled and uneducated people who want to work rather than be completely reliant on the state.

What traps people in poverty is low wages, a high cost of living and a lack of opportunity to earn more while still being able to afford housing and basic essentials.

Ellie, not everyone can just up and move. I have a dd who is an Aspie and about to start a degree. No way would she manage living away from home. She's not ready yet. And my ds lives a few miles away in residential accommodation. I live here so I can see him, buy him things he needs, bake him cakes, etc. So, although my children are grown up, I still have a responsibility to them.

There is very little work up this way. Dd has a zero hours contract job that currently has nothing to offer, so that's 3 weeks with no income for her. I'd love to train for the next grade in my primary job but it costs a grand which I haven't got.

It's not a nice feeling to believe there is little hope of a way out or a way forward.

is it a trap

Its complex as welfare is trying to catch up with unfettered capitalism post unions. Don't get me wrong union get out of hand too, but is has swung too far the other way.

In the past there was a better job market, more opportunities there's more people than jobs and many employers scrapped there apprenticeships/training schemes or abuse them as cheap labour. I remember a garage growing up every year a new youngster.

Tories believe market can solve everything, deregulated, reduces taxes but as we have seen those at the top keep their cut at the expense of the bottom. Executive pay has gone crazy in last decades , You get the rare ceo who takes a pay cut to keep a company solvant. Where are the visionaries like Cadbury back in the day building social services.

This is the year 2015 what the he'll is going on.

I don't think Ellie is a right winger. I think she is an old school libertarian. In that, she disagrees with an over powerful government and sees benefits as a tool of control and a way of keeping a population passive and obedient. If we all learn to live on less and therefore need less we can provide for ourselves and reduce the power the govt has over us. I don't think she is pro Tory at all.

Sorry if I have that wrong Ellie, or am putting words in your mouth.

NN, that is certainly may views too. In a sense it's a freedom but I accept the more on the left someone is the less they will see it like that. Even so it's good to debate these issues.

I hold the same views, however am a total leftie with it!

Ninky Nope, you have that right.

What I see is a lot of anger from a lot of people, that the system does not work for them. It is understandable to feel anger, fear, frustration, helplessness, etc. These are imposed upon people. It controls them. Oppresses them even.

These reactions are natural human emotions in the face of oppression. Like all oppressive environments, there are only two ways out. One can either fight or flee.

In the case of financial oppression by the state, you can fight that oppression by standing together and taking the fight to the oppressor, march on Whitehall. Or you can flee that oppression, by earning more, requiring less, or leaving the system that oppresses you.

In the UK, where the majority of people support the status quo, fleeing financial oppression is far more likely to result in success than fighting it. But if you are presented with no option, better to fight than submit.

History shows us that Brits are an incredibly docile people. They tend to submit to any measure of control imposed upon them. This is why wealth resides so securely on British soil. Those placing it here have no fear that the population will take it from them.

We are helped by being one of the richest countries though and so generous are our benefits that people flock from across the planet to live on them or seek work here so I suspect that is part of the reason the British do not often revolt,

My anger is, mainly, that the system does not work for the poorest workers and most vulnerable. I don't, personally, receive any benefits.

If people are having to use food banks and can't afford to heat their homes, despite working, then that is crap.

On top of food banks in my road in last year have seen at least two people sleeping in cars

If people are having to use food banks and can't afford to heat their homes, despite working, then that is crap. Lol. Brings back memories. Wouldn't want to do it with kids though. Not once they are old enough to understand.

... Have seen at least two people sleeping in cars.
Much more room in a van. A lot less of a condensation problem. On top of that, it has far greater utility. Easy to pick up a tenner helping someone move a fridge or collect a washing machine, and you can always collect scrap metal and weigh it in. F'cking cold though.

My anger is, mainly, that the system does not work for the poorest workers and most vulnerable.

Does the anger do anything other than upset you, though? Does it drive you to political dissidence?

No change happens in the UK, because half people do not want to change, and the half that do want change, don't want to have to do anything to get it, except putting a cross in a box marked 'I want change' every four years.

The reason we are governed by these people is because these are the exceptions to the rule.

What?

That is our system of government.

My point is, we are rules by those willing to take action.

What is the point of being angry about ANYTHING if you don't act on it to affect change?

The question is... You get angry about what happens to the vulnerable. Do you change things for them? Or do you just get angry?

Most people just get angry, and do nothing. It is too much trouble and they can't be bothered. They do not try. They go back to reading their book or watching their television, until the next time they remember that they were angry, and then they get angry all over again. But still they do nothing.

That is the very action that perpetuates and encourages the oppression and exploitation of those who will not defend themselves.

Besides, if the vulnerable are unable to act on their own behalf, surely those who are so enraged and impassioned by their plight, should be taking it upon themselves to act on their behalf? What use is anger if it is ignored?

EllieFantspoo Do you know what - having re-read your posts I am beginning to quite admire your internal logical consistency...I think that many react against you without properly understanding your overall mindset. On a philosophical level, you are spot on in your analysis of human condition and likely outcome given predictable socio-political context.

According to one of the online calculators, we would be £2042 worse off if we claiming Tax Credits. Hey ho. We never had it to lose in the first place. It's just a shame it won't be going to make someone else's life easier who really needs it.

raggety Maybe I took a step back after I took the tumble and never stepped forward into the mire again. I no longer sweat the small stuff. Life really is too short to not be happy. I wish I'd understood that sooner, understood that every pound you save is a pound you don't need to work for at a later date, and that if you don't play the game, you insulate yourself from many of its penalties. May parents didn't understand and so didn't teach me these things. They were classic baby boomers, and not very successful ones at that.

EllieFAntspoo Thanks for your reply - real food for thought, I shall mull it over. I really do admire your intellect.