A decent budget for low paid workers.

[Sickoffrozen]

Aibu to think that overall the budget was good news for the low paid with a big increase in minimum wages announced?

Seems like a decent idea to me.

But I stand to be corrected.....

Helena Thank you. That was kind.
and of course

The narrow-minded ignorance and selfishness of some people is quite depressing - constant comments about getting off the sofa and working, not expecting handouts etc. What a load of nonsense - this budget is a disaster for many working people. Not people who are sitting on their arses or who are just popping out to work a few hours a week - families who both work full time and have kids, but earn a crappy wage and don't have the luxury of being able to afford to retrain for a better job. And that's overlooking the fact that not every person in the country can possibly ever have a top paying job, no matter how hard they work, otherwise who'll clean the streets, serve your coffee etc?

All this 'get off your arse and work' nonsense also totally ignores the fact that the biggest leeches in society are the tax-dodging companies and millionaires, the ancient buggers in the House of Lords who turn up to snooze and get paid £300 a day for it, the MPs who eat and drink in the subsidised bars at Westminster while their poorest constituents queue at foodbanks. These people didn't work their arses off to get where they are - they were born with privileges that many don't have, so why shouldn't they have to share the burden of austerity? It's the most galling ignorance to believe that the rich are deserving of all they have, while the poor are just feckless scroungers who don't work hard enough or long enough. The Tories have certainly achieved Thatcher's aim of 'No such thing as society' - amply demonstrated by the amount of folk happy to join in with blaming the poorest for being poor, while happily voting for more obstacles to be put in their way.

Blueribbons, that was beautifully put.

Ego I did not understand money growing up. It is not taught in school, and my parents did not understand it either. They believed what 99% of the population believe. I was state educated and learned what 99% of the population learned.

I made the same mistakes many make, and do make to this day. I have no regrets.

House prices are over-inflated, I agree. That tells me it is the wrong time to buy a house. But I couldn't afford one and my credit is shot to F anyway, so it's moot as far my personal future is concerned. But for others, do you really want to be buying into an over inflated housing market?

As regards rent, outside of major cities, rent seems quite low. Yes, if you want to live within the. London sphere of influence, you'll pay through the nose for it, but that's entirely a matter for them. Elsewhere rents are pretty reasonable, and the old rhetoric of, don't rent because all your doing is lining your landlords pocket, is not different from running a business and renting premises. As I see it, A) we have no choice, and B) even if we did have a choice, we'll likely move in the next three years anyways, for work or some other convenience, so why bother?

Yes, chasing work or leisure opportunities around the country in not for everyone (anyone), but age also has a way of slowing one down, and I feel the resistance building as the years go by.

Not everyone is happy to be so 'nomadic'.

I spent my childhood moving around every few years. It was crap.

I learned nothing much about money at school. My parents didn't have much but were reasonably careful with what they did have.

I never felt the need to get myself in massive amounts of debt or to live beyond my means. I never bought into the 'yuppy' ideals that a lot of my school friends aspired to. I still don't. All I'd like is a job that means I'm not watching every single penny and wondering how I'm going to pay the heating bill this winter. Currently I have 2 part time jobs. I need a third but trying to find one that will fit with the other 2 is hard. Many people are in the same position as more part time jobs are out there than full time ones.

What do 99% of the population believe about money and what is the truth Ellie? Genuine question, not a goady one, societal attitudes to money fascinate me.

All this 'get off your arse and work' nonsense also totally ignores the fact that the biggest leeches in society are the tax-dodging companies and millionaires, the ancient buggers in the House of Lords who turn up to snooze and get paid £300 a day for it....

I completely agree, and have said so myself (for those who care to chase down my diatribe on corporate monopolies and their exploitation of the welfare state). But you certainly cannot ever change a system of governance by propping it up, giving it legitimacy, voting to maintain the status quo.

Complaining does you no good. Complain all you like to people on MN about what is happening to working people. Let's see how many people's lives will change as a result.

So you only have three options (excluding just complaining and doing nothing but bury your head in the sand)....

1. You can learn to deal with living on less money.
2. You can learn to earn more money.
3. You can take your grievance public and protest to government.

If you know of any other option, then post it. We await with bated breath. But complaining an saying we're wrong, this is outrageous, there must be something done about this, yet doing nothing and suggesting nothing, is far more childish than someone pointing out the courses of action open to people.

I personally deal with the issue by trying 1 and 2.

What do you suggest people do?

Not vote Tory, for a start.

I'm not keen on tax dodgers. That said, Amazon and Starbucks bring a lot more to the UK than someone who never works a day in his or her life and remains indefinitely in the dole.

That also being said, I would like to see everyone in full-time employment capable of leading a great standard of living. But no one really deserves to live in London, any more than they deserve to live in Manhattan or Tokyo.

Ellie - I'm not sure you understand money now though...you keep talking about top up benefits making people lazy, when actually they're what enable some very hard working people to survive.

People don't take low paying jobs because they're lazy, they take them because they are the jobs they can get.

Jobs like care workers, they don't do them out of altruism, they do them because they're jobs you can get with no qualifications and no experience and are rewarded for doing them by receiving less than minimum wage because they're not paid travelling time.

Or 'self employed' couriers who are paid per delivery instead of by the hour, even though they can be putting in 50 hour weeks and getting again, less than minimum wage.

Nobody chooses to be paid that little because they're lazy and relying on benefits, they're doing everything they can to pay basic bills.

Ellie - I'm not sure you understand money now though...you keep talking about top up benefits making people lazy, when actually they're what enable some very hard working people to survive.

Yes.

Sounds like Ellie is recommending everyone one takes up the traveller lifestyle -nomadic, cash in hand... Which is odd as the right normally hate Travellers with a passion.

Not everyone is happy to be so 'nomadic'.

I totally understand and agree. But there is 'nomadic' like us, and 'going somewhere for a better life'.

I spent my childhood moving around every few years.

So did I. Explains a lot, doesn't it?

I learned nothing much about money at school. My parents didn't have much but were reasonably careful with what they did have.

Likewise.

I never felt the need to get myself in massive amounts of debt or to live beyond my means. I never bought into the 'yuppy' ideals that a lot of my school friends aspired to.

This is where I went wrong.

I still don't. All I'd like is a job that means I'm not watching every single penny and wondering how I'm going to pay the heating bill this winter.

You see I needed to do that. It was the only way I could make ends meet. I would measure out how much gas it cost to heat a tank of water. How much it cost to run the TV for four hours. I had to learn where the money was going to plug the holes and cut back. Obviously things are different with DCs now, but the foundation was laid, and I find it to be useful to have gone there. Bloody depressing at the time, almost second world status living for a couple of years, or maybe Detroit, but I was single and it was my own fault. Life is good now, but it can turn on a dime.

Currently I have 2 part time jobs. I need a third but trying to find one that will fit with the other 2 is hard.

Good on you. I can't offer specific advice, and I'm sure many would jump down my throat for offering cliched advice, so I'll forgo stepping on that land mine. Good luck.

Sounds like Ellie is recommending everyone one takes up the traveller lifestyle -nomadic, cash in hand... Which is odd as the right normally hate Travellers with a passion.

Nope. No car, no caravan, and no lucky heather.

Ironically it seemed that actually the only people unaffected bar a pay freeze and possible housing benefit are those on jsa. Rather a kick in the teeth for hard working families who the tory made out they would support. And those on a high income.
Also ironicall small businesses who again thought that the tories would look after them
correct me if I am wrong as I couldn't get the calculator to load.

Why not? Caravans are cheap and allow you to travel to where the jobs are? You don't even have to own one, just rent at a park.

YouTheCat If you take the word 'Tory' out of your sentence, you have a solution that would work.

Ego Until people stop complaining and take action, all you have is a bunch of people tutting and some nice sound bites. We will not know how many starving children, dying pensioners and destitute parents it takes to change the system until people choose to act. Sorry, but all I see in the country at the moment is vox pops. I see no action being taken by those who want change. It is fine to talk about wanting change, but if you are unwilling or unable to take action to see it through, and unable to back that action up with determination, it is just people complaining. It means nothing.

Take it you don't like caravans then..

Just want to let anyone who is opposed to the welfare aspects of this budget know that the prospective Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is running an online petition against it - jeremyforlabour.takeaction.org.uk/petition/childtaxcredits

if you are able, please let your friends on facebook/twitter etc know about it.

I was disgusted at the 'pragmatic' position Harriet Harman took on the budget - what is the point of Labour being a watered down version of the Tories?

Must be hard with 3 kids and earning £20k. Or not easy.

Not easy. I am really anal about budgeting. I intend for us to earn more in the future, to be able to provide more for my family, and I'm always looking for opportunities.

I do things like buy in bulk when things are on discount, so I have prices for things that I will not go over, like £2 for the largest tin of Cadburys Hot Cholcolate, or £3 for the big bottle of Ribena. If it's more than that I won't buy, but I know sooner or later they always crop up on discount, and I buy a case or two and store it away. I'm not talking about buying stuff at cost, I could do that by going to somewhere like Costco. I want to be buying the loss leaders. Most of my shopping is done in the discount supermarkets though.

And children get more expensive as they get older.

I've heard that.

Why is anyone giving credence to the troll?

Take it you don't like caravans then..

I don't own a car.
I'm not above renting a static mobile holiday home for a little light summer work though, if it is economic to do so.

Ok. Honest question for those who are debating here....

Welfare is necessary. We agree on this.
Is it a trap? Whether by design, or by error, is the system trapping people in poverty?