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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

A decent budget for low paid workers.

470 replies

Sickoffrozen · 08/07/2015 14:16

Aibu to think that overall the budget was good news for the low paid with a big increase in minimum wages announced?

Seems like a decent idea to me.

But I stand to be corrected.....

OP posts:
Egosumquisum · 13/07/2015 09:56

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BreakingDad77 · 13/07/2015 12:11

I'm still finding it laughable that people think tax breaks are going to improve wages for people at the bottom.
The routes for working class to get a decent career have been eroded, decent apprenticeships that lead to a skilled job, loss of job security through too flexible working and pulling the ladder up with tuition fees.

almosthuman · 13/07/2015 15:19

BreakingDad77 I couldn't agree more

TalkinPeace · 13/07/2015 18:03

I'm still finding it laughable that people think tax breaks are going to improve wages for people at the bottom.

Absolutely.

RedDaisyRed · 13/07/2015 18:18

This as a good comment above.
"Sadly, dependency on the state means handing over your life to the whim of governments to run for you. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would choose to do that unless they had absolutely no other option, but some do, and. I do not believe in the myth that, 'it's a tiny minority'. "

The next 5 years will be very good for this country and provide the best protection for those on lower incomes whereas Labour would have certain done cuts but not enough to ensure the security for the long term of the less well off. We could have become a Greece with people crying on the street. Instead we have stability and economic improvement. As for those saying the better off do not pay their way never in the history of the UK has the tax burden been more on the higher earners than before. The fact people think we pay no tax is dreadfully galling for those of us working very full time hours where half our pay is confiscated in very high personal taxation never mind the record stamp duties =< VAT and all the other taxes we are paying. People think we don't pay tax! So who is paying it then?

vvega · 13/07/2015 18:21

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RedDaisyRed · 13/07/2015 18:30

If the nation is not bankrupt it can continue to pay benefits. If instead Labour had bankrupted it it would not just be £30 taken away but perhaps all benefits entirely! That is a huge benefit,.

It is like in a family - if you spend each week £20 on a take away which the children love but that means you cannot afford your day to day living food and rent then that indulgence which bankrupts the family is foolish. All the Tories are doing is trying to ensure we can continue to function as a welfare state by living within our means,

YouTheCat · 13/07/2015 18:39

Labour didn't bankrupt anyone. That global crash would have happened regardless.

You know nothing.

EllieFAntspoo · 13/07/2015 18:42

Work should pay more than not being in work. That's obvious - but raises a lot of questions.

You can ensure this is the case by continually reducing benefits. It cuts the welfare bill, and at some poit even the most mathematically challancged will realise that working is of greater benefit to them sitting on their sofa.

We need a separate system for dealing with disability, because the current system hasn't worked for a couple of decades at least.

What happens if you work but don't work many hours?

You learn to furnish yourself with more than one income stream. What is it with people that they do not grasp the basic concept that you do,not need an employer to earn money?

What happens if you can't work because you have children?

You force both parents to contribute financially towards their children, commensurate to the amount of actual parenting tasks they avoid. If a father does zero actual parenting, but takes them every second weekend, then he should be picking up 90% of the tab. Parents who refuse, or evade, should face graduated penalties, up to and including incarsaration.

What happens if you become ill and can't work?

That is what insurance is for. If you can't be bothered insuring yourself then the state should provide the bare necessities. If you can afford to smoke, pay for SkyTV, go to the pub at the weekend, and take holidays, you are receiving too much benefits. It's a safety net, not a lifestyle choice. No-one should be encouraged to accept welfare as a lifestyle choice.

What happens if you want to work but there is no work? How do you define no work?

There is no such thing as 'no work'. Value always moves through an economy, and value can be exchanged for what one needs. If you cannot be of value to anyone, there's your problem. If you cannot be bothered moving, cannot be bothered walking, cannot be bothered looking, there's your problem.

What happens if your ex has buggered off and doesn't support the children?

Refer to the answer given above. Ultimately jail the little fuckers and force prisoners to work. Pass the revenue on to the state to compensate for crime and support the families of criminals who are not providing for their children due to incarsaration. We do not need to be paying millions to third party subcontractors to work on roads and landfil sites, when we have a captive workforce who need to repay society for the damage they have done to it.

Should there be a basic "income" people have so they do not go hungry, cold and have a roof over their head? What would it be?

Yes. There should be basic free council housing stock. Studio accommodation, free electricity and gas, and welfare stamps to spend at groceries, tied to the persons ID to prevent abuse, black marketteering. These should preclude the possibility of buying cigarettes, alcohol, gift vouchers, mobile phones, satelite TV sevices etc.

If Sky want those on benefits to watch SkyTV they should provide this free of charge and not be permitted to charge for it. Likewise, mobile phone companies, etc. Bus and train travel should be free.

It is a bleak and boring existence, but it provides the basics of what a person or persons need to survive. If they want more, they can work for it.

What role should the State have?

The state need to correctly means test benefits. Punish and exclude the bone idle and the wilfully jobless/homeless.

EllieFAntspoo · 13/07/2015 18:47

Dawn et al

Obviously the aforementioned applied re disability and those caring for those so inflicted. Just before someone starts screaming, "How can you treat the disabled like that!"

This is not targeted at you, it is targeted at those the system was never designed to provide long term benefits to in the first place. If we can cut the fat out of the system, and let it do it's job supporting the genuinely vulnerable, we'll all be a lot better off because of it.

EllieFAntspoo · 13/07/2015 18:48

Sorry... Aforementioned caveat. Damn iPad.

Dawndonnaagain · 13/07/2015 18:50

That is what insurance is for. If you can't be bothered insuring yourself then the state should provide the bare necessities. If you can afford to smoke, pay for SkyTV, go to the pub at the weekend, and take holidays, you are receiving too much benefits. It's a safety net, not a lifestyle choice. No-one should be encouraged to accept welfare as a lifestyle choice.
We had insurance. It didn't pay out. We had savings they are gone. To say that those who are too ill or disabled to work are getting too much if they can afford Sky is awful. Dh doesn't get out much, he can't. He enjoys Sky arts, why on earth wouldn't we spend some of our money on that. Why on earth would you want to remove our choices. We don't drink, we don't go out, we don't get takeaways, we watch the odd opera or concert. That's our choice to do with our money. Not the states money. Ours. To take that choice away is nothing but a cruelty.

Dawndonnaagain · 13/07/2015 18:50

Ellie Too late! Grin

Dawndonnaagain · 13/07/2015 18:52

If it's any consolation I'm off to my only activity, oldest ds pops over once a month so that dd1 and I can go to our crochet club!

vvega · 13/07/2015 18:52

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vvega · 13/07/2015 18:57

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Egosumquisum · 13/07/2015 18:58

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YouTheCat · 13/07/2015 19:18

The fact is, it is working people who are losing out the most. Why shouldn't someone who works hard be able to have a few luxuries, otherwise what is the point in working? Why should you knock yourself out in a minimum wage job to then come home to a house you can't afford to heat and crap food because that's all you have? And no chance of getting out of the poverty trap because retraining costs money you don't have.

Ds will be affected by the £30 weekly loss in ESA in 2 and a half years because we have to reapply every three years just in case his severe, lifelong disability gets better Confused .

vvega · 13/07/2015 19:20

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YouTheCat · 13/07/2015 19:25

I would imagine it will. I think that is the point in making people with life long awards reapply in the first place.

Ds is not suddenly going to learn to talk and be able to work and live without 2:1 support. There is no cure.

Tbh, ds will be okay so long as he's allowed to stay where he is. He is lucky. But there are so many people in assisted living situations who really need that money and they are the ones I worry about. How will they be able to afford even the basics with a 20% cut in their money?

tabulahrasa · 13/07/2015 19:43

Any comments defending this budget and the fact that work should pay more than people get in benefits is quite frankly, ridiculous.

Because the issue is that that's exactly the opposite of what will happen in April.

People in work and with disabilities will lose more money than the 'lifestyle choice' claimants.

EllieFAntspoo · 13/07/2015 19:50

Dawn No worries. I know where you're coming from. I hope you know where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree with me. Your world is so very far apart from the problems the public sees with the welfare system as it operates and is funded today. I'll carry on with expressing my point of view, and remain open to anyone picking holes in me, but rest assured I don't aim my criticism and opinion at the that welfare was designed to provide for. I hope you enjoy your evening. Flowers

HelenaDove · 13/07/2015 19:51

Dawndonna Im sorry to see whats happened on this thread Thanks And YoutheCat Thanks

charmed i couldnt get the police or RSPCA to come out last week when a rogue snake was in my kitchen so good luck with getting them to come out because of a bit of swearing on a forum.

EllieFAntspoo · 13/07/2015 20:07

vvega there were a pair of young men on our street on Saturday, offering to wash people's cars of a fiver. I'm sure there are those who will point out how illegal it is, how they didn't have health and safety training, public liability insurance and appropriate PPE to be operating a business in a residential neighbourhood. Fuck them. I'm sure they didn't declare their earnings, and they never had an accountant, and probably didn't pay tax. That was two guys with a bucket and sponges earning some money.

I know that not everyone can clean cars, because the country will fast run out of cars to wash, the people will get sick of people asking to wash their car, etc. but until that happens there is an opportunity for people to earn a bit of money from some honest work. And I bet it's not the only thing they do to earn money. I bet they have loads of ways of earning money.

But sure, keep telling yourself people can't earn money. We all know where that goes. The sofa is going to become a lot less profitable year on year for the next four or five years, so either learn to live on less money, learn to earn more money, or learn to march on Parliament. The first two are guaranteed to improve your chances of survivability. The last will probably only get your mugshot on a government database. Those are your only three choices. I'm sure if there is a fourth, someone will have told us by now.

Egosumquisum · 13/07/2015 20:08

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