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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

UK mum separated by force from newborn in Spain. AIBU to be shocked this is taking so long to resolve?

319 replies

wigglylines · 05/07/2015 23:25

Poor woman, poor baby too. I can't imagine what she's going through.

Why would they drag it out so long? How long does it take to get a DNA test FFS?

Story here www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/03/british-woman-says-she-was-separated-from-newborn-daughter-in-spain

[Petition link removed by MNHQ as we don't allow them in AIBU or anywhere other than our Petitions topic]

OP posts:
wigglylines · 07/07/2015 23:54

Thank goodness for that.

The story has been updated here

It looks like the hospital have no concerns for the baby's safety then, as they have released her into her mother's care.

I repeat my original question. AIBU to be shocked this took so long to resolve?

How would you feel if your baby was seperated from you for 3 weeks pending a DNA test because they said she wasn't yours?

OP posts:
wigglylines · 08/07/2015 00:24

There are some shocking posts on this thread - at best terrible naive about racism and at worst racist themselves.

"I know she is British with Carribbean ancestry. But she is still black and therefore could enter the country with a black child with a low detection risk

^^ This for example is racism at work, whether you recognise it or not.

You are basically saying because she is black she should be treated with suspicion. How would you feel to be on the receiving end of that and separated from your baby because it's assumed you could be a baby smuggler from an entirely different continent because of the colour of your skin? That would be fair enough and you would agree it was in the best interests of your child would you? I suspect not. You would be outraged and justifiably so.

The word witch hint was used upthread. Apt I think.

As to this "she seems instead to be enjoying the publicity."

Shame on you.

OP posts:
wigglylines · 08/07/2015 00:26

That should read Witch Hunt, of course.

OP posts:
wigglylines · 08/07/2015 00:29

And for anyone who still thinks race has nothing to do with it - in the article above the mother says

“They were asking me if I was from Senegal despite the fact we all have British passports,” she added."

OP posts:
wigglylines · 08/07/2015 00:50

Putting aside the race issue for a moment - now the hospital has given the baby back (after a Spanish paper got involved and demanded answers), do people accept now that this mother and baby have been treated appallingly - particularly being separated and made to wait so long with no end date givem.

OP posts:
MistressDeeCee · 08/07/2015 01:11

Im a black woman who has spent a lot of time in Spain, my brother lives there. Never had any hassle. Im not saying racism doesn't exist because I don't really experience it there but I don't think its the main issue in this story, at all. I wouldn't have signed this petition because the story sounded too ropey and I didn't believe it. Its as simple as that. So I guess others would feel like that too. If she's been investigated and found to be telling the truth then all well and good...if that is the case.

But this thread wouldn't have helped her cause/petition at all, it has a real "browbeating" feel about it and that makes people dig their heels in, generally.

BerylStreep · 08/07/2015 01:49

She wasn't separated from her baby for 3 weeks - she was breast feeding her baby every 3 hours.

mimishimmi · 08/07/2015 03:11

If the DNA tests have proved the baby is hers, why is her story deemed dodgy and those who are concerned by how long the hospital took to get those test results back as "browbeaters"? Why should she not kick up a media stink about it?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html

chaiselounger · 08/07/2015 07:10

This woman has been treated appallingly by the authorities.

There. You didn't agree with me before when I said that. But I can't see how you can't agree with me now.

Doctors and social workers have made some fuck up MAJOR mistakes, in this case.

chaiselounger · 08/07/2015 07:19

Turns out she was telling the truth, then?
Oh well. That's ok then. The authorities behaved perfectly. They do need to be allowed to carry out their investigation, don't they?
Oh yes. No harm done!!

No. No harm done? Apart from the severe psychological damage done to the mum by the disgusting way this case has been handled by the authorities.

I'm sure she'll get over it, in a day or two. Nooooooottttt.

AllTheToastIsGone · 08/07/2015 08:33

The other point is if she hadn't gone public with her story perhaps she would still be in limbo awaiting the results of the DNA tests and/or other investigations.

I don't think she was courting publicity. I think she was probably getting desperate waiting for the hospital to establish the baby was hers.

Seeking media attention did probably lead to the hospital/social services sorting this out more quickly.

AllTheToastIsGone · 08/07/2015 08:49

I also think that once someone has formed a strong opinion it is difficult to change their minds.

Probably many of the people on this thread will continue to think that this lady must have done something wrong.

Once a doctor had given his professional opinion that the baby was days rather than hours old they would be unlikely to retract it and colleagues would tend to be supportive.

However whilst I think they should have investigated based on these concerns. I think they should have got the DNA test much faster, allowed the mother more frequent access to the baby and generally been much kinder to her working on the presumption that she was the babies mother until proven otherwise.

GoodtoBetter · 08/07/2015 08:56

The DNA should have been much faster. However, the whole case is still rather odd.

thenumberseven · 08/07/2015 09:16

www.diariosur.es/axarquia/201507/08/pone-odisea-stacie-20150708084948.html

The Spanish reporter has visited them at home.

chaiselounger · 08/07/2015 09:19

Was it even lawful?
Innocent until proven guilty?
Looks to me like it was 'guilty until proven innocent' which goes against ALL police and social services procedure guidelines.

BerylStreep · 08/07/2015 09:20

Just because the baby is proven to be the mother's, doesn't mean that there aren't concerns. My understanding from the article is that the doctors believe the baby was born 4 - 5 days previously, and that the woman gave contradictory answers.

As other posters who have experience in social work have said, there may be other issues which cannot be commented on.

wannaBe · 08/07/2015 09:36

Do I think she was treated appallingly by the authorities? no not really. The DNA aside, this woman presented at the hospital with a baby which had been born several days before the date she claimed. Paediatricians aren't idiots, it's possible to tell a baby which has been born within hours from one which has been born within days..... Added to that, the baby was said to be premature. 38 weeks is not premature.

so I suspect that this was what aroused the suspicions of the hospital staff, after all, why would you go to the hospital with a baby which had been born several days before the date you claimed, was premature, and then lie about it if you didn't have something to hide?

I suspect the DNA was only a small part of the story here, and that the hospital staff in fact used this time to get in touch with authorities in the UK to firstly see whether she was known to them over here, and also to enable the baby to possibly return to full health. Perhaps the reason why the baby was kept away was because it was in the neo natal unit, having been born prematurely, and that the woman's parenting was under question given she had given birth to a premature baby and failed to seek medical help and then lied about the situation when she did.

There is IMO far more to this story than DNA and racism. The fact that they are back together now doesn't change my view on that.

thenumberseven · 08/07/2015 09:42

The fact that she is the mother changes nothing.
Her story didin't add up and they did the right thing by thourouhly looking into it.
It wasn't just doctors, a judge ordered the dna tests.

I said yesterday that it was more than likely the baby was hers but that we would never hear the full story as we won't hear the hospital's version.
Looks that way.

thenumberseven · 08/07/2015 09:44

Everything wannabe has said

GoodtoBetter · 08/07/2015 10:02

Según sus testimonios, tras hospedarse en varios hoteles de la capital y de la Costa del Sol, el pasado 15 de junio, cuando la joven Stacie estaba embarazada de 38 semanas, y a dos días de coger el vuelo de regreso a Londres, donde reside y trabaja como ayudante en una clínica dental, su madre alquiló la vivienda en Arenas. En la segunda noche, la británica se puso de parto. «Fue todo muy rápido, rompí aguas y mi bebé vino a los pocos minutos. No sabíamos qué hacer, nos habíamos olvidado mis maletas en un hotel de Málaga, y estaba sin ropa de muda. A la mañana siguiente mi madre fue a recogerlas en autobús, pero al regresar se equivocó y acabó en Sayalonga», dijo.

Cuando pudo volver a casa ya era mediodía, y fue cuando cogieron el taxi hacia el Hospital de Vélez, en el que entraron por Urgencias al filo de las 17.00 horas del día 17. «En mi país cuando se da a luz en casa se llama a un taxi, no es una emergencia sanitaria como para llamar a una ambulancia»,

After staying in various hotels in Malaga and the Costa del Sol, on 15 June at 38 weeks pg and a couple of days away from catching a return flight to London, her mother rented a flat in Arenas. On the 2nd night, she went into labour. "It was all very fast, my waters broke and the baby came in a few minutes. We didn't know what to do, I'd left my bags in a hotel in Malaga and had no change of clothes. The next morning my mother went back tot collect them on the bus but got on the wrong bus on the way back and ended up in Sayalongs."
When she got back it was midday and they caught a taxi to Vélez Hosptial, where they presented at A and E at almost 5pm. "In my country when you give birth at home you call a taxi, it's not an emergency that needs an ambulance".

There's a whole load of weirdness and contradictions in that account and it is different from her previous accounts. At the very least I think you can say that there are some seriously odd things and it's all very disorganised and irresponsible.

jamaisdeux · 08/07/2015 10:04

Agree completely wannaBe and thenumberseven

GoodtoBetter · 08/07/2015 10:07

Perhaps the reason why the baby was kept away was because it was in the neo natal unit, having been born prematurely, and that the woman's parenting was under question given she had given birth to a premature baby and failed to seek medical help and then lied about the situation when she did.

I think the DNA "delay" was quite possibly a bit of a cover story for time to try and sort out what was going on behind the scenes. She presented with a premature baby which was older than she claimed, gave contradictory answers to questions (which she has also done in various news reports) and then ran off when questions were asked. What was the hospital supposed to do? There were suspicious circumstances, suspiscious enough to involve Spanish social services and a judge.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents15 · 08/07/2015 10:08

You're very naive OP, going purely on what one person says with no information outside of that.
There must be racism because the woman insists Spanish people asked if she was from Senegal, despite British passports? I think most spanish people understand what a British passport means! Just because she says that happened doesn't mean it actually happened.

There is still a lot that doesn't make sense. For instance: "Cottle is separated from the baby’s father, who the Olive Press understands is aware of the birth but not of the associated troubles"
How is that possible? It's all over the papers. She says her child was kidnapped by the hospital but she didn't think to mention it to the childs father? Just like she didn't think to call an ambulance when unexpectedly giving birth in an unfamiliar place in the middle of the night?
Some very strange reactions to things this woman has.

Turtlefeet · 08/07/2015 10:16

I am so glad this lady has her baby back.

I am appalled at how she has been treated. I cannto understand how the DNA tests took so long at all.

Jeremy Kyle can get DNA results faster!

GoodtoBetter · 08/07/2015 10:19

Also, the baby was in the neonatal unit which is for premature babies. The doctors said the baby was a 3-5 day old premature infant.
If you were a doctor and were presented with a woman who says she gave birth yesterday to a baby on her own with no medical help or training in a foreign country where she doesn't speak the lanaguage and didn't feel the need to come in until the following afternoon and only then to register the birth but when you examine the baby it's clearly a 3-5 day old premmie, wouldn't you feel it warranted further investigation?