AIBU to think people should say what they fucking mean?

[LashesandLipstick]

Inspired by threads in which I was told asking a question is rude because "people feel awkward saying no" and "if the person wants to, offer to do it yourself and if they want to they'll tell you not to and offer instead"

AIBU to think people shouldn't play these stupid games? Just say what you mean for Christs sake. I'm sure an adult can take you politely saying no to a request. All this does is cause confusion and create weird social norms that make no sense and confuse the hell out of people who aren't neurotypical or who are foreign.

Stop it.

Plenty of people capable of it, I just don't think the majority do it often.

Lucky for you that you're one of the special ones, isn't it? Do you find yourself at ease in social situations? With arrogance like yours, it's not hard to see why people might dislike you.

George

I don't think it's the only RIGHT way - I think it makes the most sense but that doesn't make it "right" or wrong.

Funny because they don't have any complaints. They're mostly as straight talking as I am, so pretty sure if they were offended id know. Interestingly they are mainly men though - which brings me back to my earlier thought that societal gender norms might have something to do with this

Gemauve depends on the situation. I don't particularly enjoy parties or large groups so don't feel "at ease" in them, I feel bored (so I usually won't go). But other situations I feel fine.

I don't think it's arrogant. Just a question - if someone had an IQ of 165 (I don't, before someone says this is a boast), would you expect them to pretend they didn't so as not to appear arrogant?

Tuskerfull but they don't think that there might be a wY that's better for everyone. They stick to the norm

if someone had an IQ of 165 (I don't, before someone says this is a boast), would you expect them to pretend they didn't so as not to appear arrogant?

I once had dinner with a bloke who founded and ran for twenty years a $10bn company. A few years later he took a billion dollars in cash as part of the company's merger, and its safe to say that at the peak of the dot com boom when we were dining he was worth at least five billion.

He was charming and relaxed, and we talked about (inter alia) the best place near their offices to buy presents for my children. He was probably thinking "why am I talking about tee-shirts, when I've got a private jet to worry about?" But he didn't say so, paid the bill, shook my hand and left.

He could have talked about his bank balance. He didn't. Most people would say that's a good thing?

I've also met a few members of MENSA who can't shut up about their IQs. They were, universally, losers.

So your OP, in which you arrogantly instruct us to 'stop it', is a load of nonsense then?

Gemauve I agree talking about money and showing off your wealth is boring and not a good conversation piece. But similarly I wouldn't expect that guy to have said "oh in a tiny house in a bad area" if someone asked where he lived, so he "fitted in" or whatever

Weird. I've met several people from MENSA too, some friends and family, none have done that

George

Many people write like that online. You've never seen anyone tell anyone to stop behaviour they don't like or to shut up? In fact people do it in person. I'd tell someone to stop doing something if it was making me uncomfortable.

Why are you focusing on that one part?

Tuskerfull but they don't think that there might be a wY that's better for everyone. They stick to the norm

But we don't think think your way is better. We've considered it. Man, have we considered it. Back and forth and all around, and we don't think it's better. At all.

TheDowagerCuntess there are other ways too. It's not the two or nothing. And if you consider them and still prefer the norm, fine. But many don't even consider it!

Lashes, you continue to dodge questions. However, I'll humour you.

What evidence do you have that people don't think for themselves? The fact that they don't behave like you?

Again, that seems to me both egocentric and arrogant.

But many don't even consider it!

** citation needed.

Pausing again where have I said I'd manipulate anyone? We have different views in as much as you hate it because you want to fit in, I say why should we have to fit in?

However, you've complained numerous times on this thread and the other one, where you have been concerned that people aren't willing to inconvenience themselves to help you fit in.

Ignoring for a moment the bit where you are yet again making huge assumptions about people's motivations for their behaviour.

Jassy

This will probably get me flamed, but...

The fact reality TV stars are on magazines not scientists and philosophers. That growing up being intelligent is "uncool". The fact that more people know who Kim Kardashisn is rather than John Nash. That people would rather watch big brother than a documentary, that people often "follow a crowd" (looting, riots and so on), that people worry what others think. That being different is somehow "wrong" and that conformity is promoted from an early age. That schools train children to obey and compare them against beurocratic targets.

Totally prepare to get called an overgrown teenage anarchist for this as I'm aware this isn't a popular view.

SAY WHAT YOU THINK, Lashes. I get your frustration. But it is complex.
We use to be a mannered society. Not so much now.

I find middle class manners irritating at times. But they are what mother taught me. And they can help social intercourse.

I come from a very large working class family. Only 2 of us went posh.
And they did seem to split from the rest of us.

That said, we the English, do need to be more candid at times. We often lack openess. And bottle our true opinions.

The fact reality TV stars are on magazines not scientists and philosophers. That growing up being intelligent is "uncool".

How's your PhD thesis going, Lashes? This sounds like really interesting research, and not just a bunch of sweeping statements made with no evidential basis at all.

I see a lot of young people at, for example, university open days. They are charming, engaged, clever and thoughtful people, almost without exception. I teach them when they arrive, and to be honest I cannot wish for a nicer (or harder working) bunch. So how do they manage all that, while also being not as clever as you? Could you tell us about what you're doing with your amazing intellect and insights?

Gemauve nice sarcasm. You could argue that's all anecdotal and every young person everywhere else is a beacon of intellect, I couldn't argue against it technically. However with society in the current state it's in, I think it's unlikely to be. You only have to look at the threads on here!

However with society in the current state it's in, I think it's unlikely to be.

What state's that? Increasing education, increasing prosperity, increasing health, decreasing crime, increasing life expectancy?

Tuskerfull but they don't think that there might be a wY that's better for everyone. They stick to the norm

Nonsense, there's 16 pages of people thinking about your way and saying why it won't work for them. You just refuse to accept their point of view and continue insisting your way is best.

Oh, yep, you're quite right, Lashes, you didn't admit badgering people (just checked through both threads).

That was another poster challenging you on the fact that you were in the act of badgering people.

You ask the same questions over and over again, despite having clear and logical answers which you dismiss as not making sense.

The interesting thing about the dinner example is that, even if we ignore all the social convention stuff, there is a simple practical question. And you're repeatedly failing to grasp the practical answer, which is a perfectly logical one. (You oscillate between saying it's just FINE the guy is told to bring his own food, and that it's unfair.)

Gemauve

I alluded to it before but beaurocratic educational institutions, unfair distribution of wealth, attacks on the vulnerable, people ignoring the plight of others...I know people who don't even know what's happened in Tunisia for example because they don't watch the news works for the government to have a stupid docile society, and people buy it.

works for the government to have a stupid docile society, and people buy it.

I always work on the assumption that other people are kind, intelligent and mean well. That's because I'm not a self-obsessed special snowflake who believes themselves to be better than everyone else, and I regard going around dismissing "people" as a stupid as the stuff of fascists.

You, it appears, see yourself as cleverer, more insightful and just better than everyone else. You haven't as yet provided any evidence that you are in fact cleverer, and a great deal of evidence that you utterly lack insight.

I'm not focusing on one part. I'm pointing out one of the myriad inconsistencies, shifting positions and hypocrisies in what you've posted here and on the other thread.

Other posters have pointed out many more.

You describe yourself as someone who is 'straight up' and speaks your mind, but your virtual wriggling and twisting when anyone points out these inconsistencies is quite revealing. I suspect your 'plain speaking' manifests itself as abrasiveness, and that you're not accustomed to be called out/challenged on your inconsistencies because of this abrasive/aggressive manner.

Gemauve I work on the assumption other people are kind too.

I don't think I'm any of those things - I think I'm clever than SOME, but I'm also not as clever as others. I don't think I'm better than anyone or special. I just think I can see through a lot of crap - I've never said I'm the only one who can

None of that is evidence. That is your brief interpretation of some parts of the media you don't like.

Not any of it actually provides an ounce of evidence for your assertion that 'most people' don't think for themselves or the idea that they behave the way they do 'to fit in'.

Try again?