AIBU to want to send my DC to private school after seeing kids in park?

[Fishnchipsagain]

DS is 2 so schools haven't really been on our radar yet. But the local primary is rated Outstanding so we just assumed he'd go there in due course.

This afternoon we met some friends at a park at 4pm. The park is close both to the state primary and local prep but is not one we usually go to (and we normally avoid parks at school turning out time).

The park is big but was packed with school children most of whom looked about 7 or younger, so was pretty chaotic. Most of the kids were dressed in polos and shorts or summer dresses and looked pretty much the same. However I rapidly realized that the children in one uniform were generally behaving far better than the others, so I looked at the uniforms to see which schools the kids attended.

There was a lot of pushing and shoving between the primary school kids, and one was utterly foul mouthed. These kids were also the ones who tried to shove the toddlers out of the way on the climbing frame, were clambering the wrong way up the slide, not waiting their turn or yelling at/pushing my DS and his friends if they tried to go in the play house. They took no notice of me when I suggested they wait. One picked up my son's toy and pulled the string so hard he broke it, then just chucked it down and ran off laughing. Obviously they weren't all like this, but a significant number were.

In contrast, the prep school kids we met were universally respectful and friendly to the toddlers, waiting their turn and not sliding into the child in front, one said sorry when he ran into my buggy and they generally seemed to be playing much more nicely together and have more social awareness.

AIBU to want to send my DS private after witnessing this or am I just not used to 4-7 year olds and this is normal? Ive looked on the prep school website and we could just about afford it if we scrimped and saved.

I do remember a private school teacher on one of my OU courses with me - she was looking for a career change but was struggling to find something that would pay as well.

The contempt she spoke of the children was shocking - I wouldn't want someone with that attitude near my DC.

So you can't assume private means better staff - the teachers at my DC state are very dedicated - you really do need to look deeper OP.

We paid school fees from age 4. It really really paid off. It is one of the best things I have ever done. Still got two years to go. There is a massive difference between children and the 8% at fee paying schools get 50% of best university places and about 80% of some of the better jobs!

Manners maketh the man and woman.

The teachers are of course better - look at the types of universities those teachers went to in the better academic private schools and compare with your local comp. No comparison.

You can't assume private means better. I looked at all the local schools, state and private, and ruled out both the most highly regarded boys' state and a very popular private school on the basis of the attitudes of the pupils I met. I did choose the school with a great academic record and pupils who behaved as I hope mine do/will, so on that basis YANBU.
The only thing I would say is that the fees started off manageable for us with just ds there in nursery and now both dcs are in senior school the fees are quite frankly crippling, so definitely don't do it if you'd have to scrimp and save now. I think they would have done similarly well at the non fee paying school along with our support, plus would have had nicer hols etc. (still not sorry we did it though)

I live beside a state school and honest to god I wouldnt send my kids near it, they have manners of a dog

Would this be an acceptable comment, I'm just wondering?

Lotus you can't say that "of course" the teachers are better at private school.

A good uni and good degree does not equal great teacher.

I AM a private school teacher, and I know of two teachers who are complete shit. If my kid had either of them I'd move them frankly.

I think a couple of people have missed the tongue in cheek nature of some previous posts.

Consider both schools, make a reasoned judgement.

That reasoned judgement does include the behaviour of all the kids you saw in the park because they attend the schools you are considering. It's not really a general private v state thing, in your case it's particular school A v particular school B.

What amazes me about this thread is some people's spectacular inability to identify irony.

Tryharder asked drily whether anyone had mentioned the tightening belts and shopping at Aldi thing yet (as someone always does on these threads) and in come posters taking the comment at face value and responding accordingly.

Honestly!

Goodbyetoallofthat(why do u have to have such long username).. Anyway I wouldn't care if someone said that. I'm just talking about my experience. My two nieces went to a feepaying school and they turned out ok

Well, I know that all state schools (and indeed all private schools) are not the same, but the one my kids attend in inner city Liverpool gets OFSTED outstanding for the behaviour and attitude of the kids. The younger kids are given a 'buddy' in the older years, who, in my experience, takes their role ensuring that the little ones are happy and have someone to play with, very seriously. They line up in the morning to go into class, and on the two occasions (in 5 years) I have heard of that racist or homophobic language was used in the playground, the teachers came down on it like a ton of bricks - focus of a special lesson which made a BIG impression. Added to that the huge benefits of mixing with a wide range of people (offspring of very young parents to ancient ones like us, a range of ethnicities, kids on FSM and kids of professors) and I think they do become thoughtful and appreciative of others. Combine this with some very committed teachers and an excellent education targeted to the individual child, and I really can't see what extra I'd get from a private school. In fact, I'd go further and say my kids would get a less rounded experience. I'd agree with formidable that going to a high status uni does not necessarily make a good teacher. At primary, assuming someone has a reasonable grasp of English, Maths, Science and the Humanities, I think empathy, authority, imagination and the ability to inspire are more important that a first in Greats.

y children's father taught in both sectors and he certainly found from real teacher experience that he was a policeman in the state schools and could actually teach more easily in the private schools.

I certainly can agree that having lots of teacher qualifications does not make someone a good teacher. Some people are just good at explaining things and dealing with children and others aren't. I'm not as bright as many a lawyer but I seem to have a natural ability to explain things to people so they understand it. That tends to be innate.

The 8% at private schools leading to 50 - 80% of good jobs says it all really. I am not saying my daughters would not be on or nearly on £100k a year in their 20s if I had not paid school fees (and their graduate brother is a post man currently on £20k) but I think their schools did help. They would also pass the poshness test.... laughing as I type.... Do not under-estimate the importance of received pronunciation and clothes in getting jobs in your 20s (although at Royal Mail it does not matter- ability to carry heavy letter bags matters most and turning up for work on time).

Goodbyetoallofthat(why do u have to have such long username)

I guess you're not a fan of Robert Graves.

Having been to and sent my children to both state and private schools I can assure you that you will find awful children (and parents) in both.

Yes, I agree with this. My DC go private and there are a few vile DC (and parents) at the school. Of course, there are also lovely DC and parents too - as there are the many local primaries. Money can buy you small class sizes and often better facilities, but unfortunately it can't buy nice manners.

When the time comes OP go and look at all the schools within a reasonable distance of your home and make your decision based on what you see and hear at that time. I well remember having a toddler and being upset by older DC being boisterous around him in the park. It nearly reduced me to tears on occasion. But remember its not 'the school' they go to that's at fault. Private education is really expensive. Its starts at one level for pre-prep (reception to year two), then the fees go up for prep (years 3-6), and then goes up again for secondary. And if you have more than one DC ... it can end up costing a very large amount of money indeed. And if you start private I think it would be very hard to then need to switch, because the financial outlay has become unmanageable.

Goodbyetoallofthat..nope never heard of him. Damn that state school I went to

Of course, there is the state aided lot that you pay for with bums on pews. A voluntary aided church school may provide elements of both without forking out with fees. If you can bear that sort of thing.

Very small cohort. Individual personality, experience, reaction and home environment is in the mix too.

I am referring to the children you saw at the playground.

Is it a class issue? We have decorators here and they are lovely but it is a very different culture. They seem to talk in louder voices to each other and more swearing. It seems a massive cultural gulf. The teenagers were discussing it with me last night. It is not that those people are wicked or nasty but the way they interact is very different on all sorts of levels and I would suggest it relates to class and schooling.

(How can anyone get through the English school system in state or private and not have heard of Robert Graves? Does that sum up why it is worth paying school fees?)

Up to you of course but as a child I went to private schools and I can assure you there were just as many unpleasant and rude pupils there as there were in any comprehensive. They were just a little more confident and well-spoken in their unpleasantness. Some of the nastiest young men I had the misfortune to mix with as a teenager were from private school. Sadly paying for something doesn't always mean perfection.

If you want polite, nicely-behaved children, bring them up that way.

A great school, private or otherwise won't magically turn an ill disciplined child into a paragon of virtue if the groundwork hasnt been done at home in the child's formative years.

Manners maketh man, as the saying goes, and that has to come from home first and foremost. I've had children in both private and the state system. I think it would certainly be true to say that as a general rule , standards of behaviour, learned manners and a sense of self discipline and civic responsibility is greater and more obviously evident in privately educated children, but I don't necessarily think it's the school that puts it there.

I think you should never under estimate the power of peer influence and if you suspect that your local state school has a higher than average number of pupils from families where there are very low expectations of behaviouur and personal responsibility then I would either move or look at private.

Lotus are you real? I can't tell, I didn't sleep much last night and I think I may have hallucinated you.

oh and Robert Graves wrote Goodbye To All That (no of).

...unless I am missing a clever joke, because of my state school education!

OP, YABU because you cannot make a judgment on your child's education and your family finances on the basis of one afternoon in the park.

Nearer the time, if you can still afford private (and remember you may need fees for two, and fees for secondary as well), then visit the schools in question and see what they feel like.

You are the biggest influence your child's education at primary school. the support you give at home, the teaching of good habits and manners is down to the parents as many others have said.

Personally I am happy my son is at a state primary, even 'though it was judged inadequate at the last OFSTED (but outstanding in community welfare). He is getting pushed by his teachers, the school is small and friendly, the Head is uses the pupil premium very wisely to offer the all the kids access to activities they wouldn't all have access to at home, and the school is 10 minutes from my work desk so it's really easy to get down to events without taking lots of time from work. The children are a huge mixture of backgrounds: lots of Poles, British Asian, White British as well as the odd Lithuanian, Korean etc, some kids' grandparents went to the same school, some kids have just arrived in the country, and socially, from whole gamut from A/Bs to C/D/Es. I would rather have the money to be able to afford to take him to the theatre/on holiday etc than spend it on private education but that doesn't take away your right to spend your money how you wish. Just don't do it on a snap judgment.

I'm really not used to the ways of this site at all. . I'm allowed use the word cunt and fuck(which I never would),but I call someone a gobshite for not being able to understand a tongue in cheek reaponse and my message gets deleted?,Strange!!