to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

People who "don't get why we need cuts" or think they are the "faction against austerity" are functionally no different to a spouse who wants to keep living like a king and spending money on shit when your household is neck deep in debt, and calls you all the cunts under the sun and gets aggressive/abusive with you when you have to say you can't afford stuff. FUCK you and not letting them buy stuff, FUCK the overdraft.

Newsflash - nobody in the household likes being skint, and the same is true of the country, the big old nasty mean austerity police oppressing you left wing people are in fact mum calling time and saying we have to start paying off the credit cards after you cuntwibbled everyone's finances down the toilet.

I PROTEST! I PROTEST AGAINST PAYING FOR MY PLAYSTATION AND MOTORCYCLE! SAY NO TO CUTS.

Did i just see someone compare people in low paid jobs who work bloody hard to a financially abusive spouse? JESUS WEPT

Oh fuck off bangalanga. Some of us are worried about necessities like food and heat you utter donkey. Sick off people like you talking about tightening belts. Its fucking bollocks. Its not like I would have to give up sky or going out if ky money was cut. Noo it would be fresh food. And washing my clothes. And using the fucking oven. All those luxuries.

The whole country's financially abusive "spouse", the Labour Party (and union chums) have been put on ice by the English working class, while the celtic block vote is looking elsewhere. No doubt the feeding frenzy will resume after a term or two and we can "no austerity" ourselves into the stone age. Yay.

"Oh fuck off bangalanga. Some of us are worried about necessities like food and heat you utter donkey. Sick off people like you talking about tightening belts. Its fucking bollocks. Its not like I would have to give up sky or going out if ky money was cut. Noo it would be fresh food. And washing my clothes. And using the fucking oven. All those luxuries."

I didn't mention tightening belts, and I am well aware of the fact we are all facing starvation and not making the rent/mortgage.

Thing is, I am not so deluded as to say "lalalala end austerity" as if that is an answer rather than a nightmarish exercise in denial-based spending at other people's expense.

This problem has being going on for centuries, the poor law was enacted to deal with the poor..

But we have very few genuine poor in this country.. The concern centuries ago was that giving people free money or food as it was back then encouraged idleness and illegitimacy, and guess what we have now, a benefits system to pay for the responsibilities of the parents foolish life choices..

I thought outing people wasn't on? So even if you disagree maybe let people name change?

The benefits system also spends huge amounts of money topping up the poor wages paid by muliti-billion pound companies. You don't have a problem with that?

If you mean lotuslight I think it's entirely relevant and people should e aware just what they are wasting their time engaging with.

I've worked 60 hours a week for 30 years without even maternity leaves so I can keep part time workers and benefits claimants in the style to which they have become accustomed

No you haven't, what a twatty thing to say Lotus

People just want to be able to buy food, pay the bills.

Which poor unfortunate do you bill for MN wind ups?

Lotus outs herself, no assistance needed.

The concern centuries ago was that giving people free money or food as it was back then encouraged idleness and illegitimacy, and guess what we have now, a benefits system to pay for the responsibilities of the parents foolish life choices..

To some extent this is true. I would argue that because people know teh welfare state has been a generous support they have made choice sthey may not have mad ehad they had to be self sufficient. So the couple on high top ups choose to have child number 4/5 knowing the good ole tax credits will increase. Or the teen who gets pregnant but hey - she'll get a flat etc. Someone once said ambition is the grestest contraceptive but if you benefit from getting pregnant - jeez - that's the mess we've made!!

Obviously this is not a thread for the majority of the country who support tax credit cuts but don't fear - we are the majority and no party did as well as the Torise in the election. yes the electoral system means just about the same number voted UKIP (1 seat) as SNP 50 seats but that is the way the system works. Without doubt the country wants this and the fact some mothers on the thread don't is neither here nor there.

Press reports suggest a loss of about £1400 a year on average per family and that is the £25 a week of extra work after tax parents will need to find.

Many people do support IDS by the way. It is very important people look beyond their little left wing bubble just as I brave it down amongst the lions in their leftist den on this thread. It is only by sharing views people reach an understanding of the position of others. Happy little agree-fests where everyone says you are right etc do not usually help people very much so we are lucky we are all amongst each other and next time if you want a Government that will move you to the position Greece is in or that Labour took us to last time you know for whom to vote in 5 years' time. For now you might well have to take that second bar or cleaning job. (Given I've been heaving furniture since 6am I don't have huge sympathy for those saying I just sit at a desk - like most parents I do a lot more than the day job).

Lofe can throw anyone a curved ball. MRsdevere, which is precisely why the welfare state exists.

choosing, however to make choices which you know will impoverish you - like having too many children or getting pregnant young with no home,partner or job - well, those are your choices and you then cannot bleat about being poor!!!

I woudl personally ensure that those working full time in low paid work are generousy supported by no tax and top ups if needed.

Second bar or cleaning job? Just how many jobs do think are available that will top up the tax credits people lose and how will they afford childcare?

"Heaving furniture"

Presumably the BTL removal van was delayed or something. Please don't make it sound as though that was minimum wage paid work which everyone should be able to do, because that's misleading. You might say you didn't say it, but the implication is there.

Lotus "It is only by sharing views people reach an understanding of the position of others"

When are YOU going to reach an understanding of anyone you don't agree with? You show zero understanding or empathy.

(And I've never claimed a benefit in my life before you make assumptions)

Oh FGS - there are LOADS of minimum wage bar/shop jobs. It's just that so many people would rather take the TC than do them.

Newsflash - the gravy train has terminated. Get used to it.

Many economists seriously doubt that austerity is a sensible or effective way to end the deficit. Let's not kid ourselves that there is not more than a smidge of philosophical posturing here, the Tories have long wanted rid of 'society' and the welfare state and now they have an excuse to do it.

Who is looking after the kids when everyone rushes off to all these bar jobs etc?

Ok, let's talk actual figures here. It may give some people a very vague idea of the actual realities of other peoples' lives (assuming they can take their head out of their arse long enough to read my post).

My husband works full time in a manual job. In a warehouse at a supervisory level. He brings home £254ish a week, so average just over £1000 a month. We have a 17 yo and a 15 yo opposite sex children. The cheapest 3 bedroom private rental in our town is £725. So without any benefits that would leave us approximately £300ish for everything else.

Public transport to and from work would be £3.00 per day, times 5 days a week as he works in the next town. Gas, electricity and water are £107 a month. Council tax is £164 a month. So already we've spent more than the £300 we had leftover and that's without food. So say I can feed the 4 of us for £50 a week, we are already £231 a month in the red. This is without any "luxuries" like a car, Sky, Internet etc.

So without any benefits we would be £24000 A YEAR in debt, just to provide the basics of life.

I am unable to work due to my severe disabilities after an accident. When I worked almost full time in my minimum wage, zero hours contract job, I was bringing home less than £600 a month. My husband was bringing home £800 ish in a job he had done for 17 years and was subsequently made redundant from. So with both of us working more or less full time, we were still scraping by.

I don't think the vast majority of people understand the actual day to day realities of the "working poor". Maybe some of you never even considered how little people bring home for a full time job.

Sandpiper it depends where you live.

Gravy train my arse.

Grr £2400 in debt not £24000