to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

There are certainly a lot of interesting issues on the thread.
I don't think we could move to tax turnover though. If I own a small shop and buy in goods for £40k a year and sell them for £42K it would be utterly unfair to tax me on £42k turnover when the only money I made is £2k and I might have spent £2k on a wage bill or rent. So moving to tax a self employed plumber or massive company on the money it receives which it already has to add 20% VAT on to be an unpaid tax collector for the state for no reward or appreciation is not going to work.

I certainly support measures like abolition of tax relief on charitable contributions by everyone. Changes to tax law so moving savings into a housewife's name is illegal tax evasion and the like. I want simple flat taxes and a very small state.

Yes a big state is a moral wrong and bad for citizens. Most people on the thread are left wing and will not agree - their ideal will be Soviet Russia in its heyday or the old Cuba I presume.

Lotus being left wing doesn't mean being a communist and supporting soviet Russia..

I don't really consider myself particularly left wing actually. I said further upthread that in 2010 I was quite pleased to see the new government as I thought change was needed. I'm certainly not an admirer of soviet Russia.

But, I don't actually agree with starving people to death or driving them to suicide. Because I'm not heartless.

Lashes you're being ridiculous wanting to dictate where all the money should go. People need to feel in Co tool of most of the money that their earning.

And I don't think people (most!) are heartless - we just have different ideas of how to help the poor. Some believe the state should hold their hands and others believe they should be given the basics and then they take care of themselves.

And ffs why can we not separate poor(as in out of work or low earners) and the disabled - they are different groups.

I think it's often quite hard to separate 'poor' from 'disabled' or 'ill'. Because a lot of people have caring responsibilities for someone else that in turn prevents them from working long hours/relocating for better prospects etc. So person A is the one who is ill but person B finds their earning capacity is diminished by a knock on effect.

And ffs why can we not separate poor(as in out of work or low earners) and the disabled - they are different groups.
For this reason:
A fair society where the 4% most disabled people don't bear the brunt of 13% of austerity cuts, as they do now.

Lashes 51% of people voted for the Conservatives or UKIP. Many people who voted Lib Dem will have done so because they supported the coalition. But you keep on deluding yourself that somehow a right wing government has been forced on a left wing country.
I rather think that the point is, most of the country didn't vote for the government currently in power.

I'm not seeing any alternatives other than to childishly shit on the Tories?
Really, you think that those of us coping with severe cuts to services are being childish by complaining? Do you honestly think that the people that tried to enter parliament yesterday were being childish, as opposed to desperate?

Most people on the thread are left wing and will not agree - their ideal will be Soviet Russia in its heyday or the old Cuba I presume.
Oh do grow up Lotus, that's a childish and petulant argument. I'm very left wing, I didn't vote Labour. I'm intelligent enough to see that Soviet Russia didn't work and my left wing policies include choice. That's because I'm intelligent, reasonable and adult.

The left have never objected before when Labour got in through the first past the post system. Even if we had proportional representation this time round the Tories would have got in. Cameron has a good mandate from the people and most of us support the welfare state and like the left want to help those less fortunate but simply go about it in slightly different ways (Labour planned massive cuts too by the way because we are spending much much more than we bring in as a country).

The principal difference between left and right on these issues is the Tories want to give people tools to help thems3elves and it works. It's like giving small loans to female farmers in Africa - they spend it on tools and education of their children whereas the men piss it up the wall or if you just give aid hand outs only it does not help people to improve their lot.

I do however want to make hard work pay better than it does and full time work mean people have more money and also more options longer term and more investment in their future to build a career than being incentivised to work part time. (Obviously we know tax credits also go to those in full time work of course - see my link to the Government charts).

Boris J by the way yesterday said he does not support reductions in benefits for those in work without a rise in pay. This is very much a London issue because we have the jobs here but it is expensive to travel around. I've never been able to afford to live near work in Central London so most of us in full time work tolerate an expensive hour commute in London each way every day on top of a long working day.

The left have never objected before when Labour got in through the first past the post system
Nonsense. There is a significant Labour Party membership of the electoral reform society.

is there much agitation going on for reform of the political system? I was expecting to see a lot of that after this election result - but then I guess UKIP would be better represented so perhaps people are in 2 minds.

It seems very harsh to shit over anyone who voted Tory, saying they're obviously the rich, wealthy etc who don't give two shits for "the poor", just as it's unfair to say that anyone who voted Labour is obviously just a scrounger wanting to keep/increase their benefits - what I think people forget is that a lot of those voters simply didn't and don't have enough faith in Labour to look after their money, seeing as they did things like spend it on duck ponds and fancy wall paper in the time they were in power. Plus, who can forget the note they left when the Tories got in - "Sorry, there's no money left". Of course, the Tories are also seemingly spending it/cutting it in vital areas (I don't agree with shutting down A&E wards, for example) is in evidence.
But who can you trust more? Where will the money come from to fund more benefits? Or stop the cuts going on through most sections of the economy? How would Labour have been able to give out more money whilst not making more cuts AND getting the country out of debt?
Also, it's a sad fact that the more sensationalist stories re "benefit scroungers" are the preferred go-to story for th emedia, and this is what is seen by the majority of the public, Joe bloggs wanting more kids because he can live off of the increase in benefits etc. The general public aren't told/don't think about the hard working single mother trying to make her way through life, or the disabled man, full time carer etc etc. This is what was making people angry about people on benefits. If the media had reported on the struggles genuinely hard working claimants instead, I'm sure this would've led to a different voting trend in some aspects, but who knows.

I personally know a couple of tax credit claiming Tory voters who are pissed off at the moment. They are not the benefit claimants they wanted CallMeDave to go after!

Are the Tories going to bring in anything to replace WTC's? They can't just stop the, there would be chaos. They say they want to get mothers into work, but how will that happen if suddenly mothers find themselves unable to afford childcare because they just lost up to 50% of their income?

The one thing I find really distasteful is that they are just letting people stew with no details until July.

I started another thread that might be of interest to people on here. I may have made my points really badly because one poster seems to have misunderstood - but it's not getting any interest from anyone else.

here it is if anyone is curious about politics generally and might be interested in it

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/2409497-Some-theories-on-recent-issues?msgid=55179579#55179579

As I've mentioned on another thread, I know several non wealthy Tory voters. They work though and therefore feel they are doing well in life. The main motivation for voting Tory was to try to stop others getting tax credits and benefits. Standard two child families on £35k combined family income who are jealous that they can't get credits like their neighbours do. So shortsighted and selfish. I think that seeing people suffer and struggle to feed their families will make this type of Tory feel genuinely pleased.