to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

Sandpipernest Not true. Thousands of people will be negatively affected if TC are cut, many in full time jobs; Do think the loads of bar/shop jobs you say are available will cover all of them. You should also remember many of the minimum bar/shops are already taken so won't be on any jobcentre listings.

I wouldn't waste your time arguing with lotus sandpiper and bangalanga.

They see themselves as brave warriors standing up to the foolish Left and any abuse just makes them feel even more justified and they will bang on more. Waste of energy

So I earn £6.50 an hour in a bar or something outside my normal working hours. My childcare charges at least £7 a hour..

How is that beneficial to me and my household?

On top of the lack of money I then have to find extra to pay the childminder.

Explain the logic in this please those saying oh get another job.

You do realise that some households there is only 1 adult and so cannot work around the other adult?

My job aparantly pays a living allowance.. I say aparantly because it isn't enough for the basics. The Tc isn't a lot but it's the difference between having food and not. The
Wage pays the bills.

sandpiper You do know that disabled people are dying because of the cuts, don't you?

The way the benefits system is set up at the moment is what makes things like being disabled or having a disabled child irrelevant. I think that's why we need reform.

To those who object to benefit cuts, would you feel the same if tax credits were cut but at the same time, disability and carers benefits were made far more generous?

Because that's what I think should happen, and while it might not save any money, it would make a fairer society. Benefits in my mind should be linked to need, so if a person is disabled to the point that they can't work, or can only work part time, then they should be given an amount equivalent to a living wage. If someone is made redundant then they should be given an amount comparable to what they previously earned for a fair amount of time. Amounts payable in benefits should not be linked to how many children a person has chosen to have. I think if benefits were more given more fairly, then there would be far fewer people supporting cuts.

Is cutting tax credits suddenly going to make employers pay a living wage? No. So why hit the people who can least afford it?

Benefits in my mind should be linked to need, so if a person is disabled to the point that they can't work, or can only work part time, then they should be given an amount equivalent to a living wage.

That would not go down well at all. People already feel benefit claimants get too much money and should not be better off than the employed.

I don't think the majority of people do feel that those with disabilities get too much.

In general there is a feeling that benefits are too generous, but that's because they are all lumped into one big 'benefits' catergory. If people were able to see that benefits were given only to people who genuinely need them, then I don't think there would be so many supporting cuts. But we have a system where benefits support people to be SAHPs to be better off than they would be if they worked, and it's things like that that people feel are unfair.

I would rethink my opposition to this policy if it came hand in hand with:

Legislation to enforce a living wage (with subsidies available for small businesses)
Rent controls
Reform of the child maintenance system to ensure non-resident parents are paying a reasonable contribution, including non-working and extremely low income NRPs being subject to the same intervention as PWC

Anything else is an ideological choice to remove money from the poor and vulnerable instead of the wealthy and powerful.

Austerity = the consequences of the behaviour of the greedy who cream their living off the work of others. Be they mega rich bankers or politicians, or the entourage thereof.

Protesting against having to fix your credit situation is like protesting against gravity.

The left wing has thrown a ball in the air, and is protesting and scapegoat that the thing is coming down!

Funnily enough, however much you agree in your little circle jerk, the rest of us are not in favour of, or entirely to blame for (because it is a national responsibility we all share) "austerity". Shouting louder and staging protests will not change what it is.

workingdilemma

The Conservatives 'won' 37% of the vote based on a 66.1% turn out. Its all very well trying to dilute that figure by referencing it against the total number of eligible voters but at the end of the day if people can't be bothered to register themselves to vote, get out and put a cross in a box once every five years or disenfranchise themselves by listening to Russell Brand then we have to base our election results on this who did show up on the night. Also, under the FPTP system you are never going to get a party elected in with some huge 70% majority so whining about this government not having a mandate is a bit pointless given that the highest post war election result was 49% in 1955 (A Eden win). By all means campaign for PR but at the moment it just sounds like sour grapes. Tony Blair in 2005 was elected into office with 35.2% of the vote, less than the current mob, I don't remember too many Labour supporters moaning about the FPTP system then when the result was in their favour.

Finally, it is also worth noting that UKIP who also ran on an austerity platform won 12.6% of the vote, so that is two right of centre parties with austerity manifestos getting almost 50% of the vote so any claims that most people don?t want cuts to government spending become increasingly hollow.

Disability claimants have also felt the brunt ire of the general public. I have very little faith in your statement unfortunately. People with blue badges being questioned as to why they have and so on.

Restructuring the benefits system needs a person who understand the complex nature of the lives of claimants, millions who have very different needs, IDS is not that man.

Trouble is banga every single legitimate economist has stated (and proven) that austerity doesn't work. So, once we're through that, why are we penalising the poor, the ill, the disabled? Frequent studies have clearly demonstrated that the cuts affect those in the greatest need, every single time.

I remember as a student in the 60s, reading a summary of the Communist Party Manifesto: "From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs." At 18/19 I was blown away by the simplicity and logic of that. Of course, by the time I was 21 in 1965 I had realised that ideals are rarely workable because they are dependent on everyone involved being equally idealistic and we find ourselves living in Animal Farm where,"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". Who hasn't cried at poor Boxer who was always ready to work harder but ended up at the knackers anyway.
This world and this country is run by self serving bureaucrats who genuinely don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.
Who could look at Tony Blair and see any sort of Socialist ideal? Who could look at David Cameron and see any care for conserving the welfare of the people? Two bloody World Wars, the demolition of Grammar Schools (the working class ladder to the top) benefits as a way of life, cancer drugs means tested...oh what a lovely world. I despair.

LotusLight Mon 22-Jun-15 12:31:35
I haven't read the whole thread yet but:

Are you kidding? Have you tried to get a job in a local coffee bar? a pub? a cafe? or anywhere else for that matter? Where I live there are no jobs to be had!

My daughter has a job and has been told she is not allowed a second job, she has to be available to go into work in the case of an 'emergency', not that she has had any success while looking for a better job anyway. She isn't able to 'work harder' as she can only work the hours her employer gives her, which can be anything from 12 to 20 hours a week. On the minimum wage this isn't anywhere enough to live on. HB keeps being reduced and she can't pay her rent this month. She has no money to put down as a deposit for a smaller place or to pay the Agents fees. If she doesn't live with me she will likely end up homeless.

The 'benefits' system is now designed to keep you down.

My average salary for the past 3 months was £650 yet I am still expected to pay over £100 council tax. How am I supposed to live on what's left?

You all know the answer that's coming next don't you?

No jobs? Just move
Housing costs too high? Just move
Poor transport links? Just move

Round and round we go.

Do be aware there are many many people with the views of the Tories in the UK and we - the people - spoke in electing Cameron.

So the issue is how can we make the part time workers work full time and remove or reduce their tax credits. Some on here are talking about childcare. I thought the Tories were increasing the 15 hours to 30 hours free childcare for children of a particular age). Secondly those with a spouse as some have already said you work the child care and shifts around the spouse. The thing is people are just going to have to. they are going to have to do the things the full time working parents do which are not fun - like very early starts. I had a period when 5am to 7am on Saturday was normal working hours before the twins woke up for their breastfeed. They might have to do what I did - move hundreds of miles away from all family support to find work. Yes we the full time workers/tax payers do that kind of thing.

On the jobs issue I agree some areas of the country have more jobs than others. My son did not find it that hard to find a full time job as a post man. That's £20k a year. I realise that anyone with most disabilities could not do that job. However people on the thread can clearly read, type - lots of jobs just require that so. My job does not require much more than that. I could do it with no legs even not that I am suggesting it would be an easy life without my legs.

Also most people claiming tax credits are not disabled. We do seem to have bred a culture where part time work is the norm particularly for those with children which it never used to be (when there was no state to make you just as well off part time as you are full time).

yes childcare is expensive for the few years you need it but it depends on the age of the child. Plenty of schools have before and after school clubs. Families have older teenagers who can do some childcare and the like.

I think people will manage to raise the extra £25 a week they might lose.

(At 6.15am I was moving a huge bookcase and then a chest of drawers downstairs and to the end of the garden to a garage - so the usual unpaid family work we all do in addition to our work. I was not suggesting I had a 6am minimum wage job moving furniture. Although one reason at my age I am just about never ill is because I do lift a lot of heavy weights and move; whereas some my age hardly lift a finger, never get out of breath are over weight, not fit and often ill. So I don't think the heavy lifting and domestic toil does most of us any harm )

Even if people are in a position to work longer hours in many cases they can't get them. Involuntary underemployment is a big problem.

Lotus - 22% voted for the conservatives. You keep ignoring this.

"People on this thread can clearly read and type most jobs require that" okay lotus. I'll give you my crippling anxiety disorders, where you have panic attacks so severe you think you're dying. Where even getting out of bed causes a meltdown. We'll see how long your 60 hour working week lasts.

Do you think it's right people should have to put their kids in childcare 6 days a week to survive?!

I would imagine if women gave up the waxing and the expensive knickers they could make up that short fall no bother

We need to re think how we support low income families rather than support employers to get away with low salaries and poor working conditions.

I feel that we need to do more to encourage self employment and help small companies. Small companies sometimes become big companies and create more employment. I would like to see laws on controlling zero hours contracts. An employer should not be allowed to demand exclusivity and have a zero hours contract. I feel that an employer should only be allowed to demand exclusivity IF they are offering full time hours.

Tax credits were a lovely idea, but they had some pretty negative consequences. It made it possible for people to survive on the minimum wage. The influx of immigrants meant that there were plenty of people prepared to take minimum wage jobs. It has meant that employers are able to treat employees like shit because its easy to find someone who is prepared to work for the minimum wage with a zero hours contract. Zero hours contracts make a mockery of employment law. (Ie. pregnant woman on zero hours contract can easily have her hours reduced. She has not been sacked as such.)

We need to think how we support families effectively. No child should go hungry. However tax credits have allowed employers to depress wages. Maybe non monetary benefits like free school meals are a way of helping families but not employers.

I work full time and rely on tax credits to boost my income. A reduction in tax credits would impact my household income greatly, there are not many more areas that I could cut back on.

I already do early starts as well as work 24 hour shifts twice a week. I work weekends and have to go on call which doesn't work with a second job.

I wish that the government would concentrate more on catching tax dodgers than punishing the poor.

well I work 30 hours on NMW, I get taxed all of 28 quid it's the NIC contributions that are the most, so it's all well and good satig we won't tax you, fine I'll keep my 28squids but then you can't reduce my tax credits by anymore than £28 a month.

as long as my books balance I am happy, however if they begin to tip to the red I have a major issue! .