to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

Our economy is based on buying things. Taking 12 billion off people who would spend it is surely going to have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

almosthuman I'm sure Lotus could identify where you could fit in some extra hours.

LashesandLipstick

Under the FPTP system what percentage of the vote would be an acceptable mandate in your eyes?

Oh good lord is there no end to your delusions?

Underemployment is an issue already and that's people with part time work who would like to be full time. One minute you're all "get a job in a pub". The next it's work your shifts around your spouse. These jobs are finite. There aren't thousands of jobs conveniently placed to dovetail with other jobs. There aren't hoardes of teenagers begging to do childcare. When you earn a low wage paying for childcare can leave you worse off. Capitalism doesn't function on the basis of everyone earning big money. It's a pyramid scheme. You need people at the bottom working hard for lower wages in order to facilitate those at the top taking more money.

I think that getting rid of tax credits will be carnage for the poor. However there is no easy way of weaning Britain of a benefits culture. Enabling employers to pay low wages has caught Britain in a trap.

Rather than getting rid of tax credits overnight I would favour raising employers national insurance contributions of low income people and lowering the national insurance contribution of low income workers. Tax credits need to be gently phased out, otherwise people will starve

Lotus, what is your proposal for meeting the cost of relocating, for the poorest families?

When I was younger, pre-children, I would have loved to have relocated. I was struggling working long long hours on a minimum wage job, dh had been made redundant and couldn't find work. My take home salary was entirely eaten up by our mortgage and commuting costs.

To relocate to the mainland (we're in N Ireland), we'd have had to apply for jobs. Then we'd have had to pay for a flight over to attend interview. Possibly an overnight stay if the interview was early in the day. We'd have been unlikely to be offered the first job we applied for, we might have needed dozens of return flights before securing a job. Then we'd need a deposit to rent a flat. And we'd still have to keep paying our own mortgage until we could sell our house. It would have cost thousands at a time when we didn't have money for food.

How should we have financed our relocation?

Pan, I don't support first past the post so not really sure I can give an answer

"Trouble is banga every single legitimate economist has stated (and proven) that austerity doesn't work"

Are you aware that that isn't true at all? I suggest you diversify in where you get your information from.

www.cipd.co.uk/pm/peoplemanagement/b/weblog/archive/2015/05/26/government-bans-exclusivity-clauses-in-zero-hour-contracts.aspx

You say you don't support FPTP, but what do you support, proportional representation? Then UKIP would have 81 seats, the SNP would have 36 and the Conservatives would still be in government.

I'm a democrat so that wouldn't bother me, it would be for the best, but I know some people don't care about the principles of representation as long as the people they do not approve of get no power and the people they do approve of get more, and I guess they would be very afraid of such things.

Oh God, this again... Tory baiting bingo. Has anyone been called a "cunt" yet?

Bangalanga, yes. And that doesn't bother me, I don't support it so my party would win, I support it because I think it's right..

Also you don't know how people would have voted if they actually felt their votes count!

In answer to the posters original question.
Yes I am utterly disgusted at people's comments re the welfare cuts. You only have to read the comments of some of the posters on this thread. Shockingly unempathic.

Lash, but it is the system we have in place now, for what it is worth I would prefer a PR system rather then FPTP, but until that happens we are going to have to accept that goverments are routinely going to get elected to office with less than 40% of the the votes cast. Its beginning to irritate me on here (and other forums) with people saying that the Conservatives dont have a mandate to vote with only 37% of the vote (or the weasealy 22% figure that is getting thrown around).

Did you protest in 2005 with Tony Blair getting elected with 35% of the vote?

Pan, no I didn't because I was 11 at the time The reason I bought it up is because Lotus is insisting most of the country agree with her, where in fact the majority didn't vote for the policies

Well that is debatable, as I alluded to on my other post up thread UKIP who also ran on an austerity platform won 12.6% of the vote, so along with the Conservatives that is two right of centre parties with austerity manifestos getting almost 50% of the vote so any claims that most people dont want cuts to government spending become increasingly hollow.

Pan, as far as I'm aware while both parties are right wingers they had very different ideas when it came to welfare. I do think it's hard to say what would have happened because there are loads of variables. Maybe tactical voting wouldn't happen, maybe more people would vote for what they believe in - who knows

The other thread is awful....apparently if you have pets and go on benefits you should re-home them. If you want/expect to keep them you are "entitled". Fucking hateful people in this world there really are. And yes i did say why I had my cats (they help my autistic son interact with the world) but I am still "entitled" according to the bitch troll on that thread.

I am just about finished here...and no comment on either thread from MNHQ pointing out the "This Is My Child" campaign.

Hateful people on these threads, some hateful people in this country and I am done quite literally. I've had enough of it all.

Walk in my shoes before judging me because my life is very hard at the moment and I am finding things difficult to the point of wondering why I bother going on.

I won't do anything as I live for my child who needs me but hateful comments on the internet do not help me cope with things.

Are you aware that that isn't true at all? I suggest you diversify in where you get your information from.
Apologies, I meant non right wing and respected economists rather than the right wing, feather our own nests, Institute of Economic Affairs.

Tory thinks sanctions don't equal food banks

LuisSuarezTeeth

Well the cleansing is on the way, she might be a bit leftfield, but Lisa Mackensie @redrumlisa opened my eyes. Perhaps we should get her on here?

Well what we do know is that 50% of the electorate voted for austerity parties, we can argue the toss over what they may have targeted for cuts, but what is certain in general terms it was a vote for a smaller state and smaller welfare bill.

Anyway, we digress, I just get annoyed with people posting 22/37% as if it is some ace up the sleeve triumphant debate ending factoid while completely ignoring any context with regards to the FPTP system that we have or any past election results.

Pan I take your point but I think it's misleading when people talk about a "majority" because those who aren't educated in politics won't necessarily know it's in the context of FPTP

And that's still 50% who didn't vote for it, and 50% of those who voted at all. I don't think either of us can speculate on that

That is very interesting Breaking - there has been plenty of rhetoric about housing costs in London needing to be tackled but I wasn't aware that anything was being done.

It makes sense provided there is support available for families who move (including with moving costs and new school uniforms etc). Most people can't afford to live in central London.

The Tories do not hate. We are trying to help people and are doing a much better job of it than Labour ever did. The policies are about improving people's lives at all levels of society.

Someone one asked me about the costs of moving. Our families have always moved for work. Some of mine left Ireland during the potato famine. My grandmother took a boat to India to become a domestic servant in the 1920s. people have always moved to obtain work and plenty of people move countries to come to the UK for work these days so i am sure someone in NI can think of a way to see work in England - the Irish in particular are some of the best people in the West at moving where the work is. They don't need ideas from me as to how to achieve it.

I agree that in deprived areas it is very hard to obtain any jobs at all. My son's £20k a year postman job would be seen as gold dust in bits of the NE from whence I got on my bike to seek work. No one is saying that there are easy answers but the bottom line is the nation has chosen this route, the people have spoken and want it and we want to live within our means. It is not an unreasonable requirement and as most people don't earn much the only way to try to get back to more manageable levels than being 1% of the world's population but with 7% of global welfare spend s some cutting back of thingsl ike tax credits. So the best advice to those on this thread is start thinking now about ways to up those hours

• notes through doors offering babysitting (you could pop out to do it when the children are asleep and the disabled husband or your friend is round to mind your sleeping children)
• letters to all potential local employers
• obviously upping hours at work if possible

Or have a look at the jobs immigrants will do but British people turn their noses up. British farmers are already very worried that if we leave the EU no one will pick the fruit harvests.