To think men have no right to stand outside abortion clinics and do this.

[QuestioningStuff]

Posted before about my pregnancy. I am having a termination today. This is not a decision I've made lightly.

I've arrived at the clinic and there is a middle aged man and his young teen son standing outside with camp chairs and flasks. Putting up awful pictures and signs. Trying to hand out leaflets.

I think women who do this are also scum but how on earth could a man think he has any right to do this? Turn up at a place where women are at their most scared and vulnerable and try to bully them?

It's really really upset me. I hate them so much right now.

I want to go and tell them exactly what I think of them but don't think that would be helpful at this time.

I agree totally twofingers - that statement about women being "ok" about their decision is so fucking glib

If they feel the need to pray they can do it in a church or at home, they don't need to do so outside of a healthcare facility.

They could offer their services without protesting at clinics. I do wonder what strings are attached though, so many charities with a religious ethos often provide 'charity' but with strings attached...

and no-one harmed by pro-lifers

It depends what you mean by "harmed", doesn't it, fizzy?

If you mean physically injured then you are probably right.

But there is more to "harm" than that and you know it. It is harmful to make a difficult experience on a difficult day worse.

It's also hurtful and I cannot get my head round the thought processes of any man or any woman who would do that to her.

Sorry for the anger, but these people really need to fuck off with their ostentatious and judgmental 'praying'. Go and pray quietly at home if you must.

Yes, Practice, 'glib' is exactly right.

The other question that none of these people ever address is the one about unsafe abortion. They're so stupid that they think once their placards and cameras have intimidated women out of accessing a safe termination, the need for abortion will simply go away.

Why don't they pray instead for the 68,000 women a year estimated to die from unsafe abortion, or the 2,000,000 - 7,000,000 women* who sustain long-term damage? These are World Health Organisation figures source.

*Yes, that's MILLIONS - not a typo.

Those figures are shocking

Name that charity, fizzy. It might be exactly what someone reading this thread needs.

I hadn't looked at the entire thread and you'll go straight on the attack trying to disprove what I am saying rather than taking it in good faith.

I'm not fond of the tactics of Abort 67, I found the images traumatic when I had a missed miscarriage, but not every group is like that.

It seems to me that lots of assumptions are being made about motivation and harassment by pro-lifers which aren't backed up by anything more than how their presence made people feel.

Chuggers harass me and make me feel guilty/defiant/angry. Especially ones from the NSPCC who target me when I have a toddler in the buggy and am in a hurry. Should they be made illegal too?

How about banning the anti- vivisectionist posters? Where do you stop with these?

As for the "let them use google" to find our entitlements, I struggle to work out tax credits. Plus some women don't actually have smart phones etc and even if they have, they can't always access the specialist expertise required in complex situations where SS or the family court might be involved.

Yes, Giles, they are beyond shocking. But they're only women, so why would the prayermongers give a flying fuck?

Do they ever think about the tens of thousands of children orphaned because their mothers couldn't cope with another baby, either emotionally or financially?

fizzy - please name the charity.

Can I also just add as has been said before, the "peaceful protest" doesn't just target women having abortions, it's targetting any WOMAN who is going in the door, they could be working there or visiting someone or accessing another service there.

It is harrassment pure & simple. I'm a great supporter of the right to protest but this is not the place.

course not. abortion stopped job done right.

Someone's already used the anti-vivisectionist posters argument, fizzy. We've been there and done that. Now what do you have to say on the subject of unsafe abortions? Anything?

yeah, i wanna know too.

ps. the name of the charity would be great. Someone reading might need it.

Not come back to name the charity fizzy?

If women are ok about their decision then there should be no beef with a group of people standing outside praying, or whatever.

To join the chorus, the glib superiority of this comment disgusts me too.

If I fancy a glass of wine, I might go to the pub. If that pub has a group of religious protestors outside praying for my eternal soul because they believe I shouldn't drink, what might happen? I might go elsewhere, I might go in but not enjoy my wine as much as I would have, or I might slink off home.

That's the effect they might have on me having a glass of wine. Think of the effect on a vulnerable woman who knows many in society judge her choice.

Well that's it isn't it? Say all safe abortion goes, then what? Think of how many lives are saved by women being able to access safe, legal abortion.

But it's not about the women who need/want the abortion is it? Fuck those women. Probably their own fault anyway. As long as that bunch of cells gets born eh?
Saving a life my arse.
What happens to the babies of women forced to carry on and give birth to them? Maybe some would get lucky and it will all be rainbows and glitter. But not all of them. So pro-lifers would rather see an unwanted baby subjected to fuck knows what because the mother can't cope/still doesn't want it? Lovely. Very Christian. Very charitable.

And I'd like to know the name of this charity as well. Why so coy?

I'll come back later when children are asleep and you're all less angry.

Seems to me that the only people here judging are the omniscient who can see into people's hearts and have decided that the prayers are 'judgemental'.

You don't like people praying outside an abortion clinic? Well don't take part in one...

Some people strongly disagree with abortion. Yelling at me won't change that.

And I have a friend with a little girl with half a heart, who was deemed incompatible with life. She is Irish. Her Dr hectored her up until birth to abort her 'foetus' and refused to acknowledge the baby's name and gender. I also have a friend who choose to carry an anencephalic baby and was treated like a selfish parasite for doing so.

Someone on here said that some women didn't find having an abortion hard, so that's what I meant about being okay with it.

Either we are open-minded and prepared to examine all viewpoints or we decide "right, x is wrong" and lets spend 21 pages making ourselves feel morally superior, hating on and dehumanising these evil people who object to abortion. If the latter, fill your boots and have fun, but as we know from the issue of abortion, life isn't always so black and white.

Why not stop scapegoating pro-lifers and examine whether or not abortion should be treated as an unfettered 'good'. Be angry that women are put in a position that they feel unable to have a baby and abortion is their only option, then work backwards.

Bye for now.

And the name is.....

come on there's no difference between now and later. If you have it give it

Why won't you name the charity?

Why so coy with the name of this charity, fizzy?

Surely they want people to know who they are and what they do?

Chuggers irritate the life out of me and I object strongly to their trying to interfere with my intention of walking down the street, but they're not trying to influence my choice of healthcare, so I see them as a bit different to the family planning clinic mobs.

And still no mention of the charity despite the long post. Funny that.

Nothing to say about the millions of women damaged by unsafe abortions either. Surprise!

I don't mind people being opposed to abortion- in fact I understand why they are. I don't care for it much myself. But I know that the only person I can make a choice about having an abortion for is me. I have no right to impose my morality or views on anyone else. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. But don't impose your views on other people.

You also might want to dig deeper into how that WHO figure is collated and look at maternal mortality rates in countries where abortion is restricted and then look at countries like South Africa where it was liberalised.

And pro-lifers (both religious and atheist) don't wish to see a baby subjected to an awful ordeal. They want mothers to be supported to raise their own children. Again. So many assumptions and projection going on here.

As for comparing abortion to the choice to have a glass of wine, or that your enjoyment of said drink might be ruined.

What's not compassionate is telling a woman "yeah you probably would be a crap mother & your baby will have a terrible life". Talk about validating despair.

Just name the bloody charity

Whether you object to abortion or not is actually irrelevant to this discussion, tbh fizzy.

The issue is that women should be able to access healthcare without being harassed and intimidated.

It's perfectly feasible to object to abortion but agree that women should be protected from intimidation as they attend the healthcare of their choice, isn't it?

In terms of the medicine and laws of the UK at the current time, ones own views on whether life begins at conception, whether an foetus is an unborn child, whether abortion should be lawful and in what context etc etc are relevant only to oneself.

As for comparing abortion to the choice to have a glass of wine, or that your enjoyment of said drink might be ruined.

Wow. My point just sailed waaaaaaaay over your head didn't it. Waaaaaaaaay over. Like airplane height over.

I didn't compare having a termination to having a glass of wine. I spelled it out in my final paragraph.

What I said was that protestors praying against what I was doing would make me uncomfortable. Even when what I was doing was something so trivial as having a glass of wine. So imagine the impact you have on a woman having a termination.