To think men have no right to stand outside abortion clinics and do this.

[QuestioningStuff]

Posted before about my pregnancy. I am having a termination today. This is not a decision I've made lightly.

I've arrived at the clinic and there is a middle aged man and his young teen son standing outside with camp chairs and flasks. Putting up awful pictures and signs. Trying to hand out leaflets.

I think women who do this are also scum but how on earth could a man think he has any right to do this? Turn up at a place where women are at their most scared and vulnerable and try to bully them?

It's really really upset me. I hate them so much right now.

I want to go and tell them exactly what I think of them but don't think that would be helpful at this time.

Sanity That's very eloquent and sums up my feelings exactly!

OP, this is a very stressful time in your life. You were brave to post at such a time. I hope it has helped to know how many ordinary posters have been thinking of you today and have been angered on your behalf/sympathetic to you.
I hope things feel calmer soon.

Thanks for sharing that Jux.

Haven't read the whole thread, but no, they have no fucking right to do this, and neither do women protesters. It makes me so angry, and I would happily volunteer to walk with women on the way in and out of clinics so they don't have to walk past these cunts alone.

OP, I hope everything went well today, and I wish you all the best for the future. Lots of love.

Their protest has achieved an extra signature from me on the exclusion zone petition. Well done fellas.

OP I hope you're doing OK

In response to the "troll" crap about my post, I'm not a troll. Boy opinion is as valid as anyone else's. Calling troll on someone you don't agree with is beyond pointless.

Sorry not "boy", "my".

Hi Questioning,
We just wanted to say that we're glad to see you back on this thread, and keeping well.
To everyone else, we have made some deletions, while trying to let conversation flow. Do just try to bear in mind the sensitivities, if you could, and let's keep things going in the spirit of MN? Many thanks, all.

Wow, that is thought provoking sanity. I mean, I'm very pro-choice already, but that is shocking.

Yes, I'd never thought of it like that before, either, Bonnie. It's good, isn't it?

Sorry those bullies made a rotten day even worse for you, OP

Conflicting human rights have to be balanced: the right to protest should be treated very differently when aimed at governments and large institutuions rather than at individual people, especially in vulnerable situations.

Targeting ordinary individual members of the public is more like stalking, imo.

There should be a big exclusion zone wrt protests around medical facilities & hospitals, care homes, schools, places of worship, funerals. So, basically everywhere that people are unusually vulnerable or sensitive.

Imagine someone having IVF being forced to walk though religious protesters. Or families at a soldier's funeral faced by anti-war demonstrators, or those USA religious extremists who protested at soldiers' funerals - against homosexuality in the army.

Personally, if I was having a surgical procedure or treatment for say cancer I would be devastated having to walk through protestors who were objecting to the use of animals in developing my treatment.
I wouldn't even consider dying of cancer rather than make use of treatment, but protestors would add to my misery and stress.

BigChocFrenzy I believe the law of picketing in industrial relations has always excluded people's homes, and so it should. An exclusion zone should also apply to private homes - even those of people who might be unpopular (such as men or women on either side of the abortion argument).

Interesting point you make about cancer. I survived it and it never occurred to me to wonder whether the chemo that pulled me through was tested on animals, but I expect it was, and the thought does not trouble me.

OP Much love to you and I am so sorry about the bullies who made it worse than it need be.

Personally, if I was having a surgical procedure or treatment for say cancer I would be devastated having to walk through protestors who were objecting to the use of animals in developing my treatment.

Why would you be devastated? You know what you think, so sod 'em.

This thread has turned into a pro choice v pro life debate. But that's not what it's about.

I'm pro choice, but I'm also pro peaceful protest. Because if I'm not, they will probably ban protesting against something I might want to protest about. Handing out leaflets and having posters with graphic pictures of abortions is not violent, or harassing, or even intimidating. Only if you want it to be. If it upsets you, focus on the door and walk towards it, don't take the leaflets or make eye contact with the protesters.

If they start abusing you, or threatening you, then that's not peaceful protest and is illegal as things stand.

Just for the record I do think it's a shame to delete posts on threads lime this- u think we all need to know what we're dealing with.......

TTWK Handing out leaflets and having posters with graphic pictures of abortions is not violent, or harassing, or even intimidating

...in your opinion perhaps. And yet the OP was clearly upset by it. You seem to be implying that all that's required when confronted by these people is a bit of backbone. This could be construed as victim-blaming in my view. As many have already pointed out, there's a world of difference between bona fide political protest/freedom of speech and targeting individual women.

I can't see why a mandatory exclusion zone around such places shouldn't be enforced

They are medical facilities, not public parks, thoroughfares, municipal zones, etc. They should be treated with the care and respect due a medical establishment protesting outside one, peaceful or otherwise, is not appropriate or decent.

Of course they have the right to protest. But why do it there where the only people will be effected are vulnerable women. If they want to protest then take it to a location where it will make a difference, ie parliament.
if i wanted to protest against the government sensing troops into a war zone i wouldn't turn up at a barracks.

It really is simple. If you don't agree with the law regarding abortion. Then go and protest to the people who make the law.

Handing out leaflets and having posters with graphic pictures of abortions is not violent, or harassing, or even intimidating

It might be. There is an offence of causing alarm, harassment and distress under the 1986 Public Order Act.

I'd say it was worth asking a jury what they'd think of the vociferous behaviour of an organised group of people with graphic and distressing images that may not be accurate who confronted a lone vulnerable person exercising her legal right to use a health facility.

I don't want to stop protest.

But I do want to stop arseholes.

Questioning

Look after yourself sweetheart.

Be careful what you wish for with 'exclusion zones'.

We have them - the most famous one protects protest against politicians in Parliament Square.

We should never ban public protest.

But we have laws against public disorder and we can use them in court after the event.

I suspect I would be devastated because it would be a very vulnerable and emotional time in my life when I needed privacy and couldn't face outside criticism.
My reaction, say if I were just working there, would be totally different.

Protest should not be against ordinary individuals, especially not at vulnerable or private times.
Do we want the right to a mass protest at a family funeral ? Outside a church / synagogue / mosque, so worshippers have to walk through them ?
Should someone longterm unemployed have to pass through a crowd with placards saying "benefit scroungers" outside their house ?

a peaceful Christian protest outside a mosque wouldn't go down well - or a protest against single sex schools outside a school etc these men should be moved on - there is a time and a place.

Parliament is the last place for an exclusion zone. It is the weak who need such protection, not the strong

Interesting blog post from a catholic perspective: getrektorillquickscopeum9.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/uwotm9/