Non faith school re-arranging events because of eid

[reikizen]

My daughter's primary school is a large multicultural one, but is not a faith school. They sent a letter tonight saying the year 6 leavers assembly has been rearranged to accommodate children who may be kept off school for eid. This means I can't now go as I have to request my shifts at work well in advance and did so on the information the school originally gave. I am really cross and feel like contacting the school as I can't understand why the personal preferences of a certain group of parents should trump all other considerations. I know of at least 3 other year 6 parents who can't attend the new date, and my daughter will be very upset when I tell her. Would you complain?

Well I'll miss both Dd's because I work at a school so can't get time off ever for assemblies, plays, sports days etc. It's crap but it is what it is. I am going to ask the HT if she will do a video.

Not entirely relevant to the story since it was just me affected, not 70% of my fellow students, but when I lived in the Middle East I did attend lectures at university on Christmas Day, then went home for my turkey dinner. Well, nut roast dinner, to be honest, since I'm vegetarian, but you get the idea...

Back to the main point, it's bloody frustrating when the school changes arrangements if it means you can no longer see your child taking part in something. The reason for the change is not really relevant if it's something the school should have anticipated in advance. So YANBU to be really annoyed.

Cleanmachine I think you've been wrongly informed. Today is the third day of Ramadan so if Ramadan is 29 days long then Eid will be on the Friday, and if its 30 days long Eid will be on the Saturday.

As for the poster lying to her child's school because of her inability to teach her child that accommodating different needs isn't inequality, is inexcusable. In my DD's class a boy has recently returned from attending a funeral halfway across the world and therefore was granted leave, DD didn't demand that she have the same amount of time off.

I don't think that poster was doing that at all. She would have sent her daughter in, and in fact did when she was under the impression that her daughter would have lessons. She didn't lie and give her the day off because she thought she was being treated unfairly by not being able to have a day off that other children got.

Kudos to that poster's daughter for correctly spotting what the adults in the school failed to, which is that if you give the majority of the pupils the day off to celebrate and don't teach the others because there aren't enough of them to bother then you might as well just shut the school for the day.

RAMADAN & SHAWWAL 1436 (2015)

First day of Ramadan will be Thursday, June 18, 2015 and
Eid al-Fitr on Friday, July 17, 2015, insha'Allah.

"O you who believe, fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that you may (learn) self-restraint." Qur'an 2: 183

The Fiqh Council of North America recognizes astronomical calculation as an acceptable Shar'i method for determining the beginning of Lunar months including the months of Ramadan and Shawwal. FCNA uses Makkah al-Mukarrama as a conventional point and takes the position that the conjunction must take place before sunset in Makkah and moon must set after sunset in Makkah.

On the basis of this method the dates of Ramadan and Eidul Fitr for the year 1436 AH are established as follows:

1st of Ramadan will be on Thursday, June 18, 2015

1st of Shawwal will be on Friday, July 17, 2015

Ramadan 1436 AH: June 18, 2015 (Thursday)
The Astronomical New Moon is on June 16, 2015 (Tuesday) at 14:05 Universal Time (5:05 p.m. Makkah time). Sunset at Makkah on June 16 is at 7:04 p.m., while moonset is at 6:56 p.m. Moon is born before sunset in Makkah and moonset is before sunset. Therefore first day of Ramadan is not on June 17, but is on June 18, 2015 (Thursday), insha'Allah. First Tarawih prayer will be on wednesday night.

Eid ul-Fitr 1436 AH: July 17, 2015 (Friday)
The Astronomical New Moon is on July 16, 2015 (Thursday) at 1:24 Universal Time. (4:24 a.m. on July 16, Makkah time). On July 16, Thursday, sunset at Makkah is 7:06 p.m. and moonset is at 7:18 p.m. Moon is born before sunset, and moon sets after sunset. Therefore, first day of Shawwal, i.e., Eid ul-Fitr is July 17, Friday, insha'Allah.

See - it's quite simple really!!

I'm sure it is quite simple if you follow the rulings of the Islamic Council of North America Norah.

We're not in North America, and the moon is visible at different types.

This thread is definitely giving me more sympathy for the non-expert school secretary who may have done a quick google and come to the conclusion that it's Saturday and they don't need to worry.

...."types" = "times"

Actually re-reading, the ICNA seems to work from Mecca not local visibility but IIRC that's not universal practice, and according to some authorities it varies by location. Like I said, my sympathy for the school secretary is increasing as the thread goes on.

Presumably those children children will get fined for their absence just like I was for taking my kids to their grandparents on a Friday?

Norah those calculations are based on a 29 day Ramadan and if the moon isnt sighted wherever its being looked for there will be another day of Ramadan making Eid fall on the Saturday. Even cloud cover can add another day of fasting.

And for example here in the ME Ramadan can quite often start a day later than in a neighbouring country even though its only a couple of hundred kilometres up the road.

Why should those children be fined for absence for religious observance?

Obviously I meant why should the parents be fined for their children's absence on the grounds of religious observance?

Try converting to ancestor worship swiggety. But even then you'd need good precedent that your DC's ancestors could only be honoured on that particular day. (This is why I've never succeeded with my claim that my family's religious devotion to Lego should justify me taking them to Legoland on a school day to skip the queues).

Seriously, schools recognise that families celebrating their big religious festivals all together is really important for children. I can't believe anyone would have a problem with that.

the school should not have said why they were rearranging it - just encourages anti muslim sentiment

and the school should definitely have thought about this at the start of the academic year, not now

It's not uncommon for Eid to be celebrated on separate days from one family to the next. Some mosques follow the Saudi's and others follow Pakistan's pronouncement. The countries sometimes declare the new moon sightings on different days.

Its not unknown to switch mosque allegiances to tie in with booked days off. Would have been best for the school to have avoided a block of days around the expected time.

Whether the school was unreasonable or not depends on the percentage of muslim students. If only a tiny handful and more parents will be affected than students, than unreasonable to switch at such a late stage.

Kids can be dropped off on the way to the mosque and collected on the way back. Prayers are not obligatory at a young age anyway or you can make them up later if older. I'm sure missing one set of prayers on one occasion doesn't give rise to a 'burn in hell' forever sentence.

Mistress Mia why on earth would a parent want to drop their children off at school and then go for the Eid prayers without them? It isn't about prayers being obligatory or not, its about joining in with the celebrations. I think it would be very sad if they missed out on the prayers. It also isn't always possible to do that anyway depending on where the home/school is in relation to the mosque/place of prayer. It might also depend on what time the prayers are. I don't think anyone is thinking they are going to 'burn in hell' if they miss the eid prayer, its just nice that they attend if the parents do.

decision they may not want to do that, but sometimes compromises are inevitable. It's nice for the kids to attend the mosque, but do you not think also it would be nice for the parent who has specifically arranged her schedule to be there to be able to do so ? She's not going to be able to make it on the alternative date.

Anyway the celebrations go on for the whole day, the mosque is just an hour or two at most. Unless they've changed, the feast is at home or friends / relatives house.

The leavers assembly is a one time occasion for this particular parent. There's another Eid coming along in a few months and many more in years to come. Hardly the end of the world if they miss one prayer on one occasion this year.

Oh and unless you are heading off to Regents Park mosque from a long distance away, its perfectly possible to combine drop off and collection as prayers start usually no earlier than 9am. Mosques are prolific now & most go to their local mosque unlike previously when it did entail a bit of a trek.

Mistress, most of my muslim friends' children would rather miss the leavers assembly than any eid celebrations.

As stated above, it is important that all children are present at a Y6 leavers do. Bad planning on part of school, not the muslim parents.

You sound rather strange scheduling people's eid for them.

It is bad planning on the part of the school, but what's done is done. Now somebody has to compromise. The current scenario is that some parents will have to miss the assembly as they simply cannot re-arrange their schedules.

In contrast no muslim child need miss the assembly - just drop them off and pick them up a few hours later. Eid comes twice a year, every year. It's really not that big a deal to miss a few hours at the mosque on one occasion.

Please could someone explain to me why nobody knows yet when the moon will be sighted first and thus when Ramadan will end? I mean, surely the future movements of the moon are predictable? Is it to do with cloud cover or something? But then that wouldn't explain why it can be decided a day or two before. I don't understand! Thank you...

So all the parents of Muslim children can either go to the prayer or the assembly MistressMia? Its not their fault that the school didn't think about this when the diary was being drawn up. I think it is a big deal to miss the Eid prayers after such an important month but no doubt you will disagree with that.

MistressMia there are two Eids, and the celebrations for and meanings of each are different. Would you be happy to miss Christmas because there is always Easter, or tell someone never mind about Chanukah because there is still Passover?

It is a big deal to miss a major festival in any religion, especially since the timing of a school assembly (morning, I assume) is likely to clash with Eid prayers.

Having said that, I still think the school should have chosen a date that wouldn't clash with Eid in the first place. It has been known for months that it will be either the 17th or the 18th.

I wouldn't be taking my DS to a school assembly on Christmas Day so why should anyone else have to compromise on an important festival?

The problem is with the school

altered both Eids are pretty much celebrated in exactly the same way. From memory, the only real difference I remember was having to hand round bags of meat at the second Eid to neighbours. The prayers at the mosque are all in Arabic - a language that most of these kids (and parents) don't understand, the majority of muslims in the UK being of Pakistani origin. So in terms of meaning etc - pretty much lost on them.

The main focus as a child is on presents, food, getting dressed up & seeing everyone else. That can all still be done after the assembly.

decision surely there was some onus on the muslim parents to have communicated and worked with the school wrt to changing dates far far earlier. They would have known of the impending clash at the time the original assembly was set. The non-muslim parents could hardly have been expected to know it was going to be Eid.

If the muslim parents made no prior efforts to sort things, then its manifestly unfair to change things at such short notice and just expect the non-muslims to suck it up, which is what is happening here. Its this kind of thing that breeds resentment and leads to perceptions of 'muslim pandering'.

As a parent, of any faith, in these particular circumstances I would just on this occasion accept that I was culpable in not having thought about this earlier. My choice then to go or not go. Kids would have no choice - stop whinging and get to school. Manifestly unfair to leave the non-muslim parents who can't rearrange with no choice at all.