Non faith school re-arranging events because of eid

[reikizen]

My daughter's primary school is a large multicultural one, but is not a faith school. They sent a letter tonight saying the year 6 leavers assembly has been rearranged to accommodate children who may be kept off school for eid. This means I can't now go as I have to request my shifts at work well in advance and did so on the information the school originally gave. I am really cross and feel like contacting the school as I can't understand why the personal preferences of a certain group of parents should trump all other considerations. I know of at least 3 other year 6 parents who can't attend the new date, and my daughter will be very upset when I tell her. Would you complain?

These dates are in an ordinary diary as holidays, there is no excuse for the school to overlook this.

we don't know where in the UK the OP is and what ethnicity the children at the school are. They may be Somali for all you or I know, or from Saudi, or from a mixture of places

Or even British!

MistressMia, if you really are someone who was born into a Muslim family, you remind me of Hitler with his Jewish grandfather.

Atenco That quote was by another poster. Not that I see anything remotely Hitler-ish about it.

May be read and deal with the substance of the argument rather than making lazy unsubstantiated accusations

Mistress, your posts are rather horrible and inconsiderate towards the feelings of children who are muslim.

I dont know what kind of pakistani background you were raised with, but the pakistani ladies in all of my friends families have been attending eid prayers for decades in various parts of the UK. your posts seem very out of touch with how Pakistanis or indeed muslims are living life in the UK. FYI, there are many many muslims in the UK of many ethnicities, not just Pakistani.

split there's no need to repeat what many others have said. I'm already aware of your perceptions.

I've got used to being accused of hate and bigotry for simply disagreeing with muslim views or Islamic beliefs. In fact any poster on any thread about muslim issues who doesn't agree with muslim posters' points of views are accused of the same. You don't even have to disagree, you can simply ask an innocent question or make an observation and its deemed goady as per the surgeon fasting thread and other fasting thread.

I think none of you actually realise how badly these baseless accusations reflect on you all. There's a distinct weariness with the grievance mongering, special pleading, victim mentality and accusations of hate, Islamophobia and racism that's bandied around.

We'll once again have to agree to disagree about this and many other things.

I could not attend my eldest daughter's leaving assembly as work would not give me the time off. I spoke to the school and was allowed to go to the school show the day before the parents watched it, you may also be able to watch the dress rehearsal.

Did you really think MistressMia that I thought that that quote was yours?

But here is one of yours I've got used to being accused of hate and bigotry for simply disagreeing with muslim views or Islamic beliefs

Except this entire thread is not about Muslims views or beliefs except inasmuch as, like everyone else in the UK, their right to practice their religion is respected by the authorities and that seems to be your gripe.

But people keep their children off school at Christmas because the school is closed then, If the school isn't closed then the children should attend or get fined.

Not necessarily. Families are entitled to time off for religious observance and many employers also accommodate this.

schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/pupils-and-parents/absence-and-attendance/managing-attendance/authorised-absence-for-religious-observance

If you read it it says schools are required by the department of education to authorise absences due to religious observance of festivals. The children are not legally required to attend. They have the right to observe their religious festival. This has been the norm since I was in school donkeys years ago. Why is it an issue now I wonder?

Oh for God's sake Mistress give it a bloody rest. Don't you get tired of seeking out all the threads about Muslims just so you can come on and have a go?

Are you for bloody real? Sometimes I think you are just a troll rubbing your hands in glee waiting to wind us all up.

You actually think that this screw up by the school is the fault of Muslim parents who have zero to do wth the school calendar. The parents DO NOT have a responsibility to tell the school about Ramadan or Eid. Any normal decent school with an intake that has children of different faiths has the reponsibility of organising the school calendar and fitting in events around this.

Nobody should have to compromise because NONE of the parents are at fault. But you just had to go and make it about the Muslims and their irrational stupid ways. Sure just drop your kids off to school on the most important day of the year for you all as a family. If you don't do that you are obviously a stupid Muslim.

Now that the school has screwed up, they are trying to force the compromise by allowing for the Muslim students to come in. What's that got to do with the kids/parents? Do you think they asked for it?

And the ideas from some posters that Muslim kids should have to come to school on Eid!!!!!!

No samsam you are totally wrong. Where have you been living for the last 20 years?

I work in a secondary school with 95% Muslim intake. For about 10 years they just closed the whole school. However, the last few years they make the non-muslim kids and teachers come in...something to do with the number of days necessary in a school year.

Not one kid or teacher moans...they come in, chuck a film on. It's a total non-event. The teachers do not begrudge the mUslim kids/staff having the day off. To them it's a normal working day and we are celebrating this huge event.

That's why I'm so surprised that not a single one of them thought to bring this up earlier and avoid the whole clash. That being the case, then surely the muslims have to take some responsibility too for the cock-up and on this occasion be gracious enough to compromise.

the date change was done more than a month ahead of the date. How much notice do people want?

That's why I'm so surprised that not a single one of them thought to bring this up earlier and avoid the whole clash. That being the case, then surely the muslims have to take some responsibility too for the cock-up and on this occasion be gracious enough to compromise

Maybe they saw it and thought "oh dear what a shame it clashes with Eid and dd/ds still miss it but would be a bit presumptious to ask them to change it"

rather than sighing in relief at not having to go like i would

Mistress, you fancy yourself as a beacon of knowledge of all pakistani muslim issues facing women, whereas in actual fact you are so out of touch and still stuck in the 70s mentality of what your parents generation brought over from Pakistan.

Its not your disagreement that concerns me, its the sheer ignorance and out of date information you have that is quite funny. Fortunately, more and more muslim women are posting on MN who will pull you up on your so called knowledge.

Your attempt at laying the blame at the door of muslim parents was quite pathetic but I am sure you know that already.

What an interesting thread this has turned out to be. Its good to see that people are seeing MistressMia for what she is. I often wonder if she just hangs around waiting for any threads remotely related to Muslims just so she can jump in and do a bit of Islam bashing.

This thread wasn't really anything to do with Muslims, just a date clash in a diary. But any excuse eh Mistress?

split I have no desire to get into personal attacks with you or any of your cohorts.

Everybody is entitled to their views. As I said think of me what you will.

Sheer ignorance and misinformation will soon get picked up on. Other MN contributors are intelligent enough to make up their own minds on any subject including Islam and muslim issues.

I'm glad more muslims are posting. Its great for non-muslims to be able to learn more about Islam from the perspective of its advocates rather than have just my one-sided scathing criticisms. Balance is always good.

decision just to clarify & summate for the last time, my position was that a mistake was made. Wasn't deliberate. School were ultimately the one's who were responsible for this mistake, but nonetheless it was a mistake. No one is infallible. There's a small degree of culpability on the part of muslim parents for not picking up on it and broaching it with the school earlier. Someone needs to compromise. On this one occasion, it's perfectly reasonable and possible to for the muslim parents to have done so. To take such a position is not 'Islam bashing".

I'd be really pissed off if I had a job like the op where it would be difficult to let the people in your clinic down and had arranged things in good faith in advance based on the date given and then had the school pull the rug out.

If the school have lots of people who will be taking certain days off and want to plan events to accommodate them, then maybe make sure you make arrangements knowing this that don't involve you backtracking and messing everybody else around.

It was the summer solstice yesterday. Very important spiritual day for some and certainly in the past. In fact life sustaining properties of the sun are real, so maybe an adoration that has some rationale. Most other religions seem to be based on mythology. I wonder if the school would give you a day off if it fell on a schoolday? Now that I know you can get two days off for religious celebrations, maybe I'll have a few adherents.

Just wondering do people most people know that you can get two days off for religious celebrations. All those people who take a holiday in term time. If you took a friday and a monday, then you could have a little family break without being fined, if you say it's for your religious reasons.

I think people who live in diverse areas probably do know as this has been happening since I was in school over 20 10 years ago. The link I posted does explain a bit more about how they determine what is a religious observance. Its gone behind a pay wall for me now so I cant read it. In all honesty in the grand scheme of things two days off out of the whole school year to celebrate a religious festival with your family is not asking much especially when you get 2 weeks off for things like Christmas or Easter. Not that I think that's a bad thing. It makes perfect sense to give more time off for holidays that are significant for the majority of people in the country. However if we want to encourage people to have a sense of belonging and inclusiveness in society no matter what there background these sorts of begrudging debates do not help.

I do sympathise with OP but I think it really depends on how many muslim children there are in her dds school year. If its less then 10-20% then maybe they should have just stuck with the original date and accepted that some children and their families may not attend because of Eid. However if it was more than lets say 30-40% than it would have probably made more sense to change the date due to the disruption it would have caused to the assembly to have so many potentially not being there.

Religious observance should be a self declaration issue. How are they assessing it now, a letter from God herself. If a declared 'belief' is accepted for one religion, it should be accepted for everyone. My philosophy or myth is just as valid.

I declare that a sunshine break would honour the life sustaining properties of the Sun and could be very important religious observation!

My child's school turned down a request for approved leave for a close friend's family christening abroad. It was a great celebration for our friend and the school didn't ask how important the religious aspect was to us. I can't remember if it was one or two days. I feel hard done by now.

Would the school approve a request for a visit to a neolithic tomb for the solstice dawn sunrise, I wonder? It would be very spiritual and a very ancient religious tradition.

Until Christianity no longer has any special concessions, it would be unfair to not extend the same considerations towards other beliefs.

But the general principle of religious observance getting special exemptions and within that only a few select faiths is discriminatory. People feel strongly and passionately about all sorts of other things which don't get any consideration. That's why I don't have an awful lot of sympathy for the religious lot having to forego something every now and then. The inflexibile attitudes and militancy around this particular issue is absolutely astounding.

I think with all the arguing over whether different religions should get special treatment I think people have missed the key point that if this assembly falls on July 20th it will most likely be the third and last day of Eid. Tbh nobody is missing much if they go into school. I have lived in two different Muslim countries and I have known plenty of people required to go back to work on the third day. Life goes on. Personally I think the parents involved are just trying to prove a point with the school because they wouldn't be missing much by letting the kids go in.
I think it is healthy to be able to compromise. When I worked somewhere that didn't give Christmas day as a holiday, my colleagues and I simply celebrated after school.

That's why I don't have an awful lot of sympathy for the religious lot having to forego something every now and then. The inflexibile attitudes and militancy around this particular issue is absolutely astounding.

I am an atheist and secularist, so nothing gets my blood boiling than religious people asking for some crazy exemption.

However, christianity gets anything and everything. Until that stops, I can't see it is right that other faiths are denied the same courtesy.