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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is she being unreasonable?

112 replies

squashandsqueeze · 13/06/2015 15:11

A dear friend of mine has been separated a couple of years and his dd lives with ex wife. He has regular contact, they talk every day and she stays with him a couple of nights a week. They have a very good relationship.

He is originally from another country and his family all still live abroad. They have been unable to visit for a while now and unfortunately it will remain that way for the foreseeable future. He desperately wants to take his dd to see his family, get to know them, see where he grew up, learn about the country and the culture etc.

However, his ex is adamant that she will not allow him to take his dd abroad.

Is she allowed to do this? He is on her birth certificate, he pays regular maintenance, would do anything for his dd, tries his best to keep things amicable with the ex.

I can't help thinking that, as he's also her parent, he should have an equal say?? Is there anything he can do in this situation?

OP posts:
AyMamita · 13/06/2015 15:20

He needs to take legal advice.

MakeItRain · 13/06/2015 15:25

How old is the little girl and where is the country?

I don't think he is entitled to take his daughter out of the country without her written permission (Neither is she without his.)

He could take it to court and he could argue that it would be in her interests to meet her extended family. However if she's very little and not used to being without her mum AND the country is very far, she could argue that her dd is too little at the moment and not ready to be so far away from her main carer.

enderwoman · 13/06/2015 15:27

If it's a country that's not signed up to The Hague convention then I can totally understand why she wouldn't allow it.
Has the ex given specific reasons? I ask because depending on the reasons there might be a compromise. For example if she wanted to be with her dd the first time she flies then could he buy his ex a ticket?

LaLyra · 13/06/2015 15:29

neither of them can take her abroad without the other's permission. Imo she should only be stopping him if the child is too yong to be away from either parent for more than a few days or she thinks there's a danger to the child or a risk he wouldn't bring her back.

Original poster
squashandsqueeze · 13/06/2015 15:29

His dd is 10 and he's taken her on holidays for a week or so at a time in this county so that shouldn't be an issue.

It's about an 7/8 hour flight I think to his family.

OP posts:
Original poster
squashandsqueeze · 13/06/2015 15:33

Ex hasn't got a specific reason, is just saying no. She doesn't want her going that far. But she's taking her abroad in the summer and hasn't asked his permission...

I think it's more her way of getting back at him as it wasn't a particularly good break up.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 13/06/2015 15:48

Could she be worried that he wouldn't bring her daughter back? Or that his family would browbeat him into doing so? What country are we talking about? What is the status of women in that country?

fairyfuckwings · 13/06/2015 15:50

I'd feel the same as his ex to be honest. She'll be worried about him not bringing her back. Quite justifiably really.

SaucyJack · 13/06/2015 15:52

She's allowed to stop him..... but that doesn't mean she isn't an arsehole for doing so.

BTW she can't take their DD abroad without his written permission either if he's on the birth certificate.

Original poster
squashandsqueeze · 13/06/2015 16:32

Good to know about the permission thing, I'll mention that.

I don't think she would really think there's any risk he wouldn't bring her back, but I could see that may be something she'd use if it went to court.

OP posts:
DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 13/06/2015 16:34

and watch out for South Africa now, they have new rules

LazyLouLou · 13/06/2015 16:35

Oh! Do you know the family, fairy?

What has he done that makes his ex's worry justifiable?

DampAndRotten · 13/06/2015 16:39

Legally, neither of them can take the child abroad without the other's permission.

TwinkieTwinkle · 13/06/2015 16:59

fairy are you for real? Where on earth did you pull that from?!

PurpleSwift · 13/06/2015 17:11

Ex would also need permission from your friend to take LO out of the country. I think she is bu yes, especially since she is planning a holiday herself. She can say no and your friend can apply to the courts and if your right thinking she has no good reason for saying no then permission will most likely be granted.

opalfire · 13/06/2015 17:52

IMO I don't think she's necessarily being unreasonable, unless it's ill health that is stopping the relatives from coming over. If I was her I'd be particularly wary if the in-laws come from a country where a woman's rights are not as strong as here. As previous posters have said either parent needs permission to take their DC abroad which I'm assuming is because there have been plenty of cases of abduction. I'm not saying your friend would do this but it's not unheard of.

opalfire · 13/06/2015 17:54

Do you know what country it would be because that would make a huge difference?

NeedsAsockamnesty · 13/06/2015 18:15

It's not easy to say if it's unreasonable or not without knowing what country it is.

She is allowed to refuse consent as is he.

WhereYouLeftIt · 13/06/2015 18:39

OP has now been asked which country is involved - sorry OP, but the longer that question remains unanswered, the more reasonable I think your friend's ExW may be.

fedupbutfine · 13/06/2015 18:53

I think you have to realise that a lot (and I mean an awful, awful lot) goes on between two people when they split up. And a lot is said and some of it is, if taken at face value, very worrying. I bet there are very, very few couples out there who when they split up, didn't at some point say something that the other could have taken as a threat to ensure that the other's relationship with the children is ruined. And it happens.

Has he offered to give full flight details and show a return flight has been booked? Is the country signed up to the Hague Convention? Is he asking to take the child for, say, the full summer holidays and not acknowledging that maybe mum wants some time with the child as well?

It's not unreasonable that the child is taken to meet her family. It is likely that a court would grant him a Specific Issues Order to take the holiday providing he has made no threats to not return the children and the country is signed up to the Hague Convention. If he has ever threatened not to return the children, he will, I think, struggle to get permission.

Finola1step · 13/06/2015 18:59

If the country in question hasn't signed up to the Hague Convention, then the mother of the child may well be justified in having concerns.

BoneyBackJefferson · 13/06/2015 19:09

The first thing that popped in to my head is

Which country is it?

LazyLouLou · 13/06/2015 19:12

OP has now been asked which country is involved - sorry OP, but the longer that question remains unanswered, the more reasonable I think your friend's ExW may be

Very harsh. OP may one of the few who has a life outside MN. She may be out, tripping the light fantastic, eating a meal, drinking a delicious beverage, meeting with friends or a host of other, delightful past times.

To say that her having a life, signing of t'internet for a few hours proves any nefarious activity is, erm, madness?!?

basgetti · 13/06/2015 19:18

OP posted on her identical thread in another section 20 minutes ago so she is about. The reluctance to say what country it is makes me think the ex has a point.

LazyLouLou · 13/06/2015 19:19

Maybe she is getting more friendly responses on the other thread.

I think you're reading too much into it.