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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sorry for the Naked Rambler.

196 replies

BlossomTang · 09/06/2015 18:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-33063397 in jail again for the same thing - it must be obvious to the authorities that there is a MH issue, but seems there is nothing they can/want to do. It's not like he is Russell Brand and does it for the attention!

On his first TV programme where he walked the length of Britain (with his then GF) naked he seemed fairly sane but the GF realised getting chased by the public or arrested was not worth the cause - but he cannot see this. Subsequent programmes did suggest MH issues - does he just yo-yo in and out of jail for the rest of his life?

OP posts:
DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 10/06/2015 08:47

Hedge-and if that's not flashing I don't know what is!Hmm

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 10/06/2015 08:50

Shelby-that's a really good point and precisely why he ends up in prison.

ChunkyPickle · 10/06/2015 08:56

TBH, I think this thread shows, and from my experience with Brits, that if he was just quietly bumbling around nude rambling we'd smirk, roll our eyes and let him largely speaking get on with it as long as he wasn't causing hassle or fuss - just like we do with other people with odd ideas or weird fashions.

The trouble is he's being obnoxious about it, and when you're obnoxious to judges and the police you get put in jail.

HairyMcMary · 10/06/2015 08:58

Men who murder women in secluded woods are never naked, as far as we know.
Flashers are not naked: they quickly unzip and expose themselves to targetted victims, typically women and or children.

Hysteria and irrational responses to seeing a naked person are not a good enough reason to imprison them when nakedness is not a criminal offence.

ChunkyPickle · 10/06/2015 09:08

Oh, I don't think he's intimidating - a naked hairy bloke in boots, rucksack and woolly hat would be a surprise, but not a worry.

What's got him in prison is an inability to compromise and respect the authority of the courts.

ApeMan · 10/06/2015 09:16

I have no interest in such a person doing as they will within obvious limits, indeed most of us love an eccentric and are all for it. Thing is this man crosses those limits and then some.

When the "eccentric" starts exposing their winkle to young kids, women, or anyone else who very much did not consent to that/go to a place where you'd expect that to happen/otherwise get a choice in a man showing them his bits, when he insists on doing so when asked/told to stop, and actively seeks the situation out when warned about it in advance, well it's a sex offense happening in front of you. If he wants to wander around outside the local primary school, intentionally, a fucking bobble hat and socks does not take the edge off that really, if anything it makes it worse. Shudder.

I also have to wonder how many other people have got in trouble because of this man's behaviour given that he seems very happy to cause a disturbance - I can totally see a nice and ok member of the public, seeing this man striding around outside the local Early Learning Centre/primary school/whatever, deciding to throw their coat over him, or escort him away, or give him a clip across the earhole, or any number of other things that could lead to a disturbance (but which would probably be preferable to the situation continuing).

silveracorn · 10/06/2015 09:19

Our society has made nakedness an issue. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. A bit of male tackle bobbing about is no more or less unsightly than a wobbly chin or nasal hair. We've learned to find disgust in nakedness. I can imagine how distressing his behaviour is to his family, but that's because they'll be mocked by others, and made to watch him suffer court cases and attention. If we decided it was OK, it would be, because there's nothing inherently scary about a body.

I don't agree at all with what he does because I think one's first duty as a parent is to be a supportive adult not a trailblazer for some trivial agenda at the expense of stable family life. But I don't think the way he's treated is admirable either.

Hoppinggreen · 10/06/2015 09:21

He knows what will happen if he does this and yet he keeps doing it so I have no sympathy for him at all.

silveracorn · 10/06/2015 09:25

Shelby there's no reason why the two should be linked. That's no more logical than saying: if we let people drink beer after work then how can we complain if people start urinating in the streets and fighting? because they are not the same action, that's how. One person is walking naked, minding his own business. Another is seeking people out to terrorise them by drawing attention to his sexual arousal in the hope of eliciting fear. Flashing is an actively aggressive act.

Sallyingforth · 10/06/2015 09:27

silveracorn

Muddymits · 10/06/2015 09:33

Yeah silveracorn, that's what I think too. He isnt someone I so would jail and there are plenty I would keep in for longer!

Sallyingforth · 10/06/2015 09:34

It's good to see that those of us who are entirely comfortable with nudity, and those who for some reason are worried by it, mostly agree that this guy is wrong in what he does.

He needs to be stopped, but there seems to be no way of doing it.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 10/06/2015 09:35

Chunky pickle -that's very true.

VenomousVorpent · 10/06/2015 09:37

I have seen him a couple of times. He was not in the least scary or threatening.

Personally I don't think he should be in prison for being bare. Whether he is a terrible father or unpleasant man in general has no bearing on the legality of his actions. He should only be prosecuted if his actions cause harm to others. I don't think seeing a chilly looking chap trot past harms people, others obviously disagree.

I think he should be very grateful to the police for protecting him though. In the current climate a man famous for showing his privates near schools must fear for their safety.

Hoppityhippityhop · 10/06/2015 09:43

"Our society has made nakedness an issue"

When was it okay to wander around naked in Britain? 1800? 1500? 1200? 900?

It's pretty much been considered not on for quite a long time.

"Hysteria and irrational responses to seeing a naked person are not a good enough reason to imprison them when nakedness is not a criminal offence."

"[F1(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally exposes his genitals, and
(b)he intends that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress."

He knows being naked on a plane or outside a school will cause offence.

McT123 · 10/06/2015 09:53

A great poem from the fabulous Murray Lachlan Young on the subject here:

Sallyingforth · 10/06/2015 09:59

Hoppity
Which bit of "he intends" do you not understand?

When I sunbathe naked on a beach, or go for a swim, I am simply enjoying myself. I have no intention to offend, and any resulting offence is caused only in your own mind. That's your problem, not mine.

Hoppityhippityhop · 10/06/2015 10:07

Sallyingforth I think there is a whole world of difference between you being a naturist on a (naturist?) beach, or in your home, or in a resort and the NR being deliberately provocative by walking past school children when he knows that it will alarm and offend people.

MistressDeeCee · 10/06/2015 10:07

I feel so sorry for his children. Im cringing at the thought of them sinking into themselves with shame over and over - their father coming to pick them up from school naked? Why is that "ok" when he is causing his children trauma?

So often childrens' feelings are completely bypassed when it comes to what adults want to do. He put his children through that, he doesn't care how they felt. It may not be illegal for him to be naked but a man that has no thought or care for inflicting what is a want, NOT a need on his immediate family plus outsiders too, is a horrible man.

All those saying "its only a naked body" your children or young teens may not actually think so. If a young girl comes across him and runs away screaming is the appropriate response from parent "oh its only a naked body". The problems this stance can cause in terms of being told this about a man, are legion....its a terrible message to send out to her

His "need" doesn't trump everybody elses at all.

Sallyingforth · 10/06/2015 10:43

Sallyingforth I think there is a whole world of difference between you being a naturist on a (naturist?) beach, or in your home, or in a resort and the NR being deliberately provocative by walking past school children when he knows that it will alarm and offend people.

Yes! As I have said above, at least twice.
BTW I use ordinary beaches to sunbathe. I see no reason to travel miles to dedicated 'naturist' beaches when there are other, often better beaches much nearer.

SaucyJack · 10/06/2015 11:02

Are you sunbathing naked on non naturist beaches?

I don't think that makes you any different in principle to Stephen Gough tbh.

RoyalMaybe · 10/06/2015 11:42

Hmm, wouldn't want to sit on his seat on the bus though...

TheFlis12345 · 10/06/2015 11:58

Whether you agree with his right to be naked whenever he feels like it or not, at the end of the day, he repeatedly, knowingly breaks the law and shouldn't be allowed to do so without consequences. A person deciding to shoplift or sell drugs or hell, murder people might in their head think they have every right to do so, but the law disagrees and so they would be punished if caught doing it.

Mistigri · 10/06/2015 12:22

What law do you think he is breaking TheFlis?

He gets released for jail, stopped outside and re arrested, before he has had the chance to actually do anything that is actually illegal (there is no law against being naked in public).

ArcheryAnnie · 10/06/2015 12:31

I can understand why people feel sorry for him, but he isn't being naked in a vacuum, as it were. He's being naked in a situation where male nudity is seen as threatening, whereas female nudity is seen as threaten-able, if you see what I mean. Can you imagine any woman getting away for so long with what he does?

And there is the issue of consent. In an ideal world there might be no problem with casual non-sexual adult nudity, but in the UK, where this man rambles, there is a social contract that you don't, in fact, flash your bits at people who have not expressly consented (by, for example, going to a naturist beach). And most people haven't consented to be flashed by him.

I wince at the language of much contemporary social justice arguments, but in this case I do feel that he is acting from a position of unthinking privilege, and he isn't a Hero For Our Times at all. He needs to put it away.