to have said no naps for 2 year old ds (mil related, and long)

[justbatteringon]

DS turned two in April. If he has a nap during the day is up until at least midnight, about a month and a half ago DP and I agreed to try no naps for a week to see if it helped any. It did DS's mood improved he was sleeping from 7.30 - 8pm until 6 - 7am the next morning (his usual wake up times). I admit some days he has a tired period but usually if you distract him/keep him busy he'll have no problem staying up.

At the minute DP's parents take care of the children while DP and I are working, controversial to MNers I know but it's very temporary and it's a long story but please believe me when I say I have legitimate reasons and I appreciate them doing it very much.

So DP's parents watch them at the most about 5 hours a day maybe 3 times a week. We asked them to please not let DS nap, because of above reasons DP was insistent to them that they not nap I took the approach with them that I understood that he's sometimes hard work to keep but up but if you've tried and he's knackered then let him have a wee sleep. No problem or so I thought.

They've since told DP that they will not make any attempt to keep him up and if DS wants to sleep they're going to let him and that is that. They even lied about letting him nap which made us think he would be much more tired than he was and took him to bed much earlier than we would of had we known he'd had a sleep during the day. This happened 2 days in a row and it's not even the problem.

DP sent them a whatsapp picture of DS at midnight saying "this is what i mean about letting him sleep he's still up and it's after midnight i know my boy and i know when he needs his sleep"

FIL replied that he was absolutely livid at DP for sending him that message and MIL sent DP 3 messages about how terrible he was how none of her other children were as terrible and was he proud of himself that his DF was now going to bed with high blood pressure. I told DP to ask them over for coffee the next day to sort this out. MIL responded that DP must have a guilty conscience to invite them for coffee.

I thought that the response was absolutely awful and want to have a word with them to clear the air and remind them that we are the parents and not them.

Would I be wrong to do that?

Does anyone else not allow their 2 year old to nap?

Thanks for reading.

YABU. You expect grandparents to ensure that a tired child does not fall asleep so you can have 12 hours of peace. Completely out of order and entitled. Pay for childminding if you're unhappy. The cheek of some people.

I'm home with my ds today it's been a hard week for him because of the change of his routine but I'm managing to keep him up simply by getting g up getting him I drink taking him outside not cuddling him for an excessive period of time.

If its your children your rules then you look after a tired two year old who wants to go to sleep. Us grandparents might like a nap ourselves you know.

Allowing the child to nap deprives HIM of the amount of night sleep he needs...

Sorry I thought I'd put in a previous post that we do pay them for childcare not as much as cm but we offered them more and the amount we pay is the highest they would accept.

I don't think you are unreasonable in saying "this is his routine and I'd like you to stick to it as much as possible" but if it's someone you trust to look after your child, paid or unpaid, then you also need to trust their judgement in the moment.

I do think the picture message sounded snarky (but if this is normal for how you communicate with the GPs then it's normal for you) and YABU to expect DH's siblings to act as child minders - your arrangement is with the GPs not the siblings.

Hissy, then his parents should make arrangements to avoid that. The grandparents have raised their children, although the OP says they didn't do a very good job and she should know as she married one of them.

I agree about the siblings as childminders at the start I told dp but he said they were happy to do it. They actually really love spending time with them.

I'm really a big chicken with dmil so my putting my foot down will consist of whispering please don't let him sleep and that text message wasnt very nice then scurrying out of the room.

granny they did, they asked them to stick to a routine that worked for the child, and for them. The gp here are choosing to ignore those wishes, happy enough to take the money (so it's Not free childcare) but not listen to either parent wrt the best way to care for their son.

Perhaps the photo sent at midnight was a little PA, but by the sounds of it they have tried to raise this in the past, I understand the frustration that drove them to do it.

Does anyone else not allow their 2 year old to nap?

Our 2 year old DD definitely needs a sleep during the day. As long as it's not too long (really no longer than 45 mins) and not too late in the day (no later than 3pm) then it doesn't affect her going down at night. She's generally up very early, and if she doesn't get a sleep then she will get very tired and crabby by teatime (I've seen her fall asleep in her tea before) which isn't nice for any of us ;).

They're all different. I've always thought that the insistence on a fixed routine, while important, is overstated. Coming out of your routine can be stimulating and beneficial for little ones.

OP you are getting lots of unreasonable bashing here. YANBU at all. Your child is in transition between naps and no naps and any person who genuinely wanted to help you would listen to what you want them to do and try their best to do it. Can't imagine my parents sneakily putting DS to bed to give themselves a break when they only had him for 5 hours and they knew l result would be he'd be up til midnight and so would we be. If your son gets up 6ish you're presumably already getting up at half five to get ready for work.

All the self righteous "you can't complain if it's free" - for a start OP says it isn't, and why can't you complain if someone tried to help you but does it in such a way it makes life worse for you or your child?

This is about GPs thinking they know best and I think they are bu.

OP sorry to hear about the questions you have around DS'S development and also sorry that people on here are assuming you're doing the routine wrong - it could be the your son needs something different so all the more reason for childcare to support what you are trying to do.

Op, you can't go through life whispering apologetically then it comes to your sons welfare, I know it's hard to do, but you do have to stand up and raise issues where you see them as significant.

It's easy for me to say this, my DS is hurtling towards being 10 yrs old, and I've been raising him myself (useless hands off ex) pretty much the whole time. I too would have struggled to have dealt with this when he was 2. But I did set the routine and was the one that adjusted it to fit around things when I knew he'd have a late night or a long day.

You do need to sit down with your mil and say that yes, perhaps the photo was ill advised, but your h sent it through sheer frustration and desperation. Point out to her that you aren't making a nonsensical request for nothing, a nap really does affect the entire household, and it'd really help your DS and the family if you could work with them on this. The point to make would be that if she were to have him overnight, she'd see at first hand what happens and by removing a nap during the day, everyone is happier, especially DS.

Sleep is so important, proper nighttime flat out full on sleep doesn't only recharge the batteries like a nap does, it helps them grow, develop and learn.

Time to have a calm mum to mum chat, and apologise for the pa text, but state the valid reasons behind it.

If she gets it, life will be better for her too. As she'll be more trusted and will therefore get more time with DS, but if it's a battle, with repercussions for days afterwards, it is logical that given a choice over who you'll choose for childcare or access, she'll be further down the list of preference. It's not a threat, but a logical conclusion. Nobody wants that.

You have to tread carefully with grandparents. While I would not have sent the photo in the cold light of day, I can understand the frustration and anger that led to it. You and your DH must have been frazzled by then.

Do we know the gp put the child down for a sleep or did they not manage to keep him awake. I don't think the OP has said, she might not know, but some people seem to be suggesting it was putting him down for a sleep which might not be the case.

My dd dropped all her naps at about 18months old. This was not something I did lightly- I was 8 months pregnant (and devastated when the naps went! But better no naps than up at 4am!) They gradually reduced prior to that, and nursery had no issues at all with her not napping, although I suppose they had seen her transition process. There is a huge difference between keeping a child awake who genuinely does not need a nap, but might get a little crabby midafternoon- a change in subject/quietly sitting and reading a book/going for a walk will usually solve the problem, rather than trying to keep a child awake who really still needs a nap- that I agree is very difficult (and Ofsted probably would have issues!) It sounds like your son stays awake without too much trouble.

Sometimes the less sleep a hold gets, the less sleep they will allow themselves to have.

When we tried to cut down on daytime sleep, we had late settling and ridiculously early start to the next day. The longer we allowed as much sleep as was needed, the longer and better DC slept through. Odd but true.

Sitting in a 2 year old's room for at least an hour until they go to sleep can also be counter-productive. Recently my DC was playing up and I tried to sit in the room for comfort, but to made matters worse. When I said it was sleep time and goodnight, then walked away, DC finally settled down much quicker. I know all children are different, but even the same child can differ from one day month to the next as they grow through different stages.

If a child needs daytime sleep they should have it. The dropping of a daytime nap is best being directed by the child, not the caregivers.

Spring yes that is odd but true for some children

...but not for the OPs. If he has a nap he is awake until midnight. If he doesn't have a nap he sleeps well at night. She has tried it for a week and it worked well.

My dd dropped all her naps at about 18months old.

What I did when DD1 was this age was to put her in the pushchair and go for an hour's walk after lunch (weather permitting). If she needed to sleep she had a sleep, if not she got a nice stroll out of it.

Not so easy when DD2 came, though.

Oh yes I remember the afternoon walks I've always tried to encourage ds to nap before we decided to cut them completely. I remember one day my pram had a flat tyre and me in tears to mother.

I imagine the grandparents get tired & find it difficult to deal with a fractious child who wants to sleep so it feels natural for them to just let him sleep.

I'm not blaming anyone, I understand OP but I understand the oldies, too. It's the sort of thread that makes me very wary of ever offering to look after grand-DC if it means so much hard work.

Perhaps Tarka, but nonetheless the OP also disclosed one of the parents has to sit in the room for an hour after the bedtime routine ends.

I'm a SAHM so during the transition phase I had to suffer the consequences whether I kept them up (fractious child) or let them sleep and stay up late (fractious mum). And as much as I preferred them to have an early night, occasionally it just wasn't the right thing to do. I don't think you can really have a blanket ban on daytime napping because there are times when they absolutely do need it and it is cruel to try keeping them going. It can seem more black and white when you only deal with the child for part of the day.

Add to that the fact that sleep is a bit of preoccupation for this generation in a way it wasn't for our parents, it possibly seems to them as ridiculous as the victorian obsession with bedwetting. Grandparents are notorious for knowing best and mine certainly think they know better than me, and in some respects they do. But they don't always take on board the societal changes behind modern practices (sleep is a higher priority because so many mothers work now and need a night's sleep themselves). I don't think they handled it well. It was patronizing and underhand to lie to you and I can totally understand why you and your DH would have reacted as you did. But honestly, everyone is a bit out of line here. I think you might need to prioritize the relationship for your DD's sake, apologize and suck it up. But I would make it clear that you all need to be straight up and honest with each other and that while you respect their perspective they should respect yours too.

You do know that a childminder can and will do what she wants with him. She isn't your employee, you have decided to take her service which is how she works. If she decides everyone has quiet time after lunch, there's a good chance he will fall asleep. What happens if 3 months later she takes more children on and he falls asleep daily on school pick up for older children?

The only way is a nanny who may agree to those terms, but may will also say they won't force him to stay awake.

Imo sleep breeds sleep.

Also he must be tired If your saying he can't sit down for a cuddle as will fall asleep. I'm assuming granny often sits and reads to him or cuddles on sofa with a toy as they can rest also

But sleep doesn't breed sleep for the OP's child (and didn't for mine either at that age). Not all children are the same. Remember she has tried no nap for a week and it worked.

From what she's written, she's not prodding him awake, just saying that don't put him in a nap-like situation (cuddling, bed etc) around that time - do colouring or something else.
She did it for a week and it worked better for their ds.