if you can't afford the children you have you shouldn't have more?

[Lady1nred]

was speaking to a couple I know today, both out of work and living on benifits. They have 3 children and they are very vocal about how awful it is that they barely get enough money to survive. It turn out that she is now pregnant with their 4th child! This was planned and they are delighted?! They use food banks and thir children have every gadget and toy known to man!

When I asked how on earth they will manage with another child she blatantly said the money they recieve will go up and that it is her right to have as many children as she likes?!!

I have 2DC, I would love a 3rd but we would struggle finNcislly so have made the decision not to. I believe benifits should be capped at 2 children, she obviously doesn't agree! If she can't afford to pay for the children she has why should I go without yet pay for hers through my taxes? AIBU?

Well the benefits cap definitely isn't just for future claimants and that pretty much does the job of what the OP is suggesting. Unless the OP's 'friend' is somehow exempt from the cap, they will had had to work out whether they can afford to raise another child knowing they'll receive no more than the cap dictates.

i suspect that anything social is lost on you 5day. If you talk such utter self decimating tripe accept what your given

Anyway don't think I suggested cutting benefits? Just that people should have a sense of social responsibility and make life choices within their means. Shit happens in life and the benefit system is there as a safety net, I for 1 support it and have no problem with people claiming. I do however have a problem with the situation I described in the original thread. Completely different to loosing your job, caring for disabled children and whatever other circumstance is being thrown out there. Seems to be s difficult concept to grasp, for some, on this thread who take everything said oh so personally, twist of to martyr thrmselves and basically argue as someone else said that black is white and cry 'bdnefit bashing' if you disagree! Bit boring now really.

Eh, you do realise a salary of 23000 includes oaying rent, mortgage etc and doesn't rise at all no matter what your personal circumstances? Anyway, this thread completely gone off on a tangent and is nothing to do with the original point.

So can we safely assume that you're not at work either then OP? Seeing as you're on MN at 10.30 in the morning?

There's the pertinent question, MrsD, does the OP understand? Alas, I would say not. Reading the OP's responses to people agreeing with her (where she LOLs away like a 12 year old) and the, erm, quality of her 'debating' I would she is far from understanding.

It's along the lines of 'you're all poo-poo heads, so ner, and I'm only sticking around to try and outdo you all. Tragic.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of my benefit wine as self decimating lady . I'd say it's something for me to consider but the statement is tripe itself. Self decimation is actually a very British trait. Nothing to do with me challenging poorly formed views.

However, as you've ignored many valid questions throughout this thread, I'm going to agree with PP and deduce that you don't actually have a very good understanding of the issues.

But Whiskwarrior, some of those arguing against her font understand either. There's no point saying it doesn't happen or what happens if you work, have a baby then lose your job or if you of you're child is disabled because none of that is what she was talking about in her op.
Ribbing the op, or worse, ignoring her and joining the chorus of popcorn and goats does nothing to help alleviate the fears and grievances that a lot of people like the op feel.
We need to explain why cutting benefits isn't a good idea whilst also acknowledging that some people are feckless even if some of that fecklessness is understandable.

By taking the piss and denying the validity of the OP, all that happens is that people like the op (in general, not necessarily this op) become more frustrated and disgruntled and end up turning to people like UKIP or other rough wing options.

Typos sorry. First sentence: don't understand Last sentence: Right wing

But people have explained why cutting benefits isn't the answer. Repeatedly. And the OP's response is to deny that a family, any family, can live in poverty if they receive 23k in benefits.

Luis, yes of course I would still agree?! What an off question, why would I not agree. I could survive on 23k no problem infact I have for some time at one stage... That's 23k before tax with 2 young children and pretty much a full time carer and working.

Anyone I'm not twisting it. Having decided this is OPs opinion, she supports this NOW. Upon finding herself in that situation, would she still support it? I doubt it.

Infact it was a lot less than 23k and that was before tax!

They probably could afford the 4th if they werent buying gadgets for their kids instead of food and other essentials.

Yes, but very few people are doing it in conjunction with acknowledging she is right to feel annoyed.

Of course it's reasonable to feel annoyed if your total household income is very similar to another family with the difference being you and your partner work and they don't. That you have 2kids, would like 3 but cannot afford it due to childcare etc whilst the other family don't need to consider such things.

I totally understand it's not as simple as that. I am not the Op, nor and I struggling on 23k or stopping at 2kids due to financial constraints. But many people in the country are in a similar position and they do feel pissed off and unless we engage properly without bring dismissive it will come back to bite us in the arse.

Avoided what questions 5dsy? There are too many posts for me to remember questions and how do I know what ones are being asked if me specifically? Please feel free to ask any questions you like and I will attemp to answer them for you, just to put your mind at ease. I won't have internet now until late this evening but I will be more than happy to answer them then have a wonderful day

My very first post asked you several questions lady. You acknowledged the post but ignored the questions. Might be worth going back and having a re-read if you're barely taking in the posts of those with opposing views. It's becoming increasingly obvious.

I'm not bitter or jealous either! I'd rather by working for 23k than living off 23k in benefits with all the shit that goes with that coupled with that utter despair that many benefit claimants feel as a matter of course. But to be fair, nobody really engaged initially. She was sneered at and then passive aggressively ignored whilst posted chat goats/popcorn/hobnobs etc. I'm just saying that's not constructive.

Yes, UKIP are racist but many non racist people voted for them last month. People who felt that nobody was listening to their issues on this very subject. NF was very clever at his catch all grievances politics.

I just think it's a mistake not to acknowledge that there are many people who feel like the op and they're not all nasty right wingers who think all benefit claimants should be sent to the poor house. I don't see it like the op but many people if and I think they need to be listened to rather than hounded.

I am very pleased MN has frequent threads about hardworking families having to have support feckless benefit scroungers' large broods with their toiled for taxes. It’s good we can call judgement on these benefit families, scrutinise their promiscuity, family size, the quality and quantity of their electronic goods and their general habits.

There would be nowhere to put all of our "outraged of Britain" dole-bashing, green-eyed and unkind remarks otherwise. It's not like tabloids and broadsheets are running weekly stories and inviting us to pour our gall into the comments. Oh, wait…

have

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-parkinsons-brain-tumour-ruled-5822041
Save your anger for a government that allows this to happen.