AIBU in expecting her care costs to be paid from her income

[itdoesnthavetobethisway]

Hi, I am a long time lurker, infrequent poster, especially after the security thing. I have posted on AIBU because of the traffic but am probably in the wrong place. I am a bit at my wits end.

My mother has been living with me and my family DP, DSs (7 and 2) for 10 years now. I have moved her around the country with me. For most of the time she has been well. 5 years ago she started getting confused and for the last year she has deteriorated badly with episodes of extreme agitation and getting extremely angry with me and DP.

My brother is an accountant. He has been looking after her financial affairs since our father passed away 15 years ago. My mother has an income of around £30,000. She has hardly needed this as I have supported most of her living costs but had used it for shopping trips. As she has become increasingly confused my brother has taken her credit card and PIN and used it at her request or for things she needed to do to sort out her own income.

My brother and I always had a verbal agreement that if she required care, we would use her funds to pay for this. In the mean time, I suspect he has been using her income for his own purposes.

In the last few weeks, she has deteriorated markedly and has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She is confused all day, agitated and unable to self care. She is now incontinent of urine and faeces.

I work full time in excess of 50 hours and so does my DP. My old nanny is now a family friend and has been visiting my mother and my new nanny has made meals for her, which she eats with the kids. DP works at home 2 days a week and sorts out hospital appointments, daily medication etc.

I have raised the issue of carers with my brother but he is refusing to use her funds to support this. DP and I are not in a position to pay for carers, as our budget is already stretched to the max with childcare requirements.

I don't think I am being unreasonable in asking for her income to be used for her care but I am really stuck about what I can do about it. He holds the purse strings completely and has even declined my request to buy some incontinence knickers, saying I should foot the bill or (when pushed) that we should split the cost. It seems that it's going to be uphill work just getting the basics for her care. I'd appreciate any advice.

[Rinoachicken]

I'd be tipping off his employer too - he'd be unable to practice if he is investigated by the accountancy bodies - most firms demand you to confirm in writing each year that you are 'fit and proper' to practice - they would be VERY interested to learn this is not the case

[DisappointedOne]

Which school is your nephew at? I don't think even Marlborough College costs £30k a year!

[HelenaDove]

Both your mum and your brother have totally screwed you over.

[YsabellStoHelit]

If he had official POA you would likely know as a close relative has to sign to get it done (my bro had to sign for my uncle to get poa for my grandma. Would have normally been my mum, his sister.)

Seek legal advice. She needs fulltime proper care which you just cannot feasibly provide. You have neither the time nor the training. If she's spent only a pitence of 30k a year then there should be thousands in her bank. If there isn't ( which tbh may be the reason your bro is suddenly refusing to fund care with it) then family or not he needs investigating for fraud. Your bank statements will prove shopping bills etc that include your mum, mail coming to her etc will all show you've looked after her.

[missingmumxox]

Kings school Canterbury is £32,000 a year last time I looked
So school fees are very expensive the higher you the scale you go.

Op you need to sort this for your Mum as well as yourself, Good luck

[whois]

Is he a chartered accountant? As in ACA? If so make a formal complaint to the ICAEW. Or whatever body if he has a difference accreditation.

Completely unethical. He's a fucking cunt.

[ApplePaltrow]

Your brother is basically evil. Him and his stupid wife need a slap. That's about as polite as I can manage...

I don't have anything helpful to say because I'm so furious on your behalf!

[yearofthegoat]

I can't believe your brother and mother have taken advantage of you and your DP for ten years. My DGM lived with my parents for many years, but money was sorted out so it was fair and everyone was happy.

If DN is doing his GCSEs now, it is a perfectly good time to change schools. I have seen plenty of expat students have to find a UK sixth form place suddenly when parents don't get the full 2 year contract to cover the A level years they need. Everyone finds a sixth form place somewhere.

I can understand you won't want your DB to lose his job, but I am amazed he doesn't see how his behaviour could cause his professional status to be called into question. He should be falling over his feet to sort out the money with you so SS don't involve the police or courts.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Cocktail Queen - I assure you that SS are very interested in self funders who lack capacity and are being abused.

Please don't spread the misinformation that if you are a self funder SS won't be interested - enough people think that already, that SS won't help

[Idefix]

op!

Exactly what goat says.

This is the ideal time to make this change, hopefully your dn has had a fantastic launch into his academics studies with your good will but the gravy train needs to stop.

As others have said the potential fallout for your dub if this was to come to the eyes of courts could catastrophic for db reputation, career etc. op you need to be strong and insist this has to stop. i would have a very frank conversation with db about the implications of not formalising your dm financial issues could have terrible ramifications for db.

Good luck.

[Trickydecision]

Would your mum have made a will before her faculties started failing, and if so do have you any idea of the beneficiaries? I am wondering because you mentioned that she owns properties from where some of her income derives. I am concerned on your behalf that your brother will get all that too. Apologies if this was covered upthread, I could not see it.

[RandomMess]

Honestly I would be looking at getting your Mum into a local suitable home. My visiting her daily you can ensure that she is being well cared for. Ultimately social services etc. will decide how that will be funded and your db can argue and fight with them rather than you.

It sounds like her decline is being quite rapid and it would be best to sort this out now as a priority whilst she is well enough to adapt to the move.

Your brother & wife are behaving in an awful and entitled manner you have given your Mum very many good years living with you but her health sounds beyond what you can manage now let alone in 6 months time.

What will happen if you want to go on holiday is your brother going to step up and care for her then?

[comingintomyown]

Unbelievable . And you say you can see where your brother is coming from in terms of it would be "his" money funding stuff ?

[lougle]

sadwidow the poster who said that income prevents carers allowance is correct. The limit is £110 per week after tax, national insurance, the cost of caring for the person you care for while you're at work and half of pension contributions.

[ilovesooty]

I think the police should be involved quite frankly. I don't see how any justification can be made of the amount your brother has taken.
www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-11-22/man-jailed-for-stealing-60k-from-aunt-with-dementia/

[youarekiddingme]

OP you truly are the most selfless person I've ever come across.

So for 10 years you've effectively funded your mother whilst she's had an income of £30,000 which your bother spends and uses as he wishes?
Yes DN school fees were agreed but surely your DSes should be treated equally?

All I keep thinking is that for 10years technically £300,000 of inheritance of which u our entitled to half of has been built up and yet yiur half has been spent whilst you spend on your mum.

I have no advice legal wise or SS woise as I don't knowt what he system but I'll pass you some because in the very least it's what you deserve.

[youarekiddingme]

Apologies for masses of typos - it seems my iPad has a lingo of its own!

[Dowser]

Not read the whole thread yet but wanted to answer before this gets lost in the pages .

My aunt lost capacity and had to go into care. She was funded by the Local Authority but as she had funds and had a house naturally they wanted that money back.

As she had no children I was next of kin and had to become her deputy. This was costly but came out of her funds eventually. Each year you have to fill in a financial statement of where you spend her money.

By the time the deputy ship came through she had amassed £20,000 of care costs which was paid on release of her funds.

Believe me once the court of protection gets involved I would not like to be your brother if he has misappropriated her funds.

The debt is not yours OP. costs for her care are your mums. If she had no funds the LA will pick up the tab.

On a personal note I'm sorry to hear this. Alzheimer's runs thoroughly family like a knife through butter. My gran,mum, and two aunts. A horrible, horrible illness.

[spicyfajitas]

Without your mother lacking capacity to grant it, you would apply to the court of protection for deputyship. This means you would be answerable to the court of protection for managing her finances and would have to keep and submit complete accounts. It's arduous, but would stop this misappropriation of her money even if your brother chose to take it on. You would pay a yearly fee which would come out of your mum's money.

I think this arrangement is preferable to allowing ss to have control though would be surprised if they were prepared to take it on anyway.

Epa can only be granted if your mum has capacity and you are still answerable to the court of protection and keep accounts but do not have to submit them. ( they'd only be scrutinised if someone raised a complaint)

If your mother needed to go into a care home, she would be self funding with assets over x amount. If he income didn't cover her fees, she could defer that portion and you would not be forced to sell her house.
I would advise doing this if it came to it and not selling the house as the money from it would soon be swallowed in fees rather than providing an income.

A financial assessment would need to take place and if your brother was deemed to have deprived your mother of assets that could have gone toward the cost of the care home, they would chase your brother, so he needs to tread carefully and be completely above board, of which I am sure he is aware.

[7amliein]

Dead easy. She needs to be in a home. The local authority will hunt down her income and savings for you to pay for her care. Your brother will be hounded by them until he gives in. Downside is that bu the time they are finished there will only be £23k left for inheritance etc.
Alternatively just threaten him with this unless he comes up with a reasonable solution.

[newcontractquestion]

I've waded through 7 pages of this and agree getting the police involved seems sensible. As well as sorting out the OP's mum's longer term care options, the DB needs to be held to account for what he's done here.

[WeAreEternal]

I would say the most logical solution would be that if he does not want to give you access to her money to pay for her care then he should be the one caring for her.
I would pack up her things and drop her at his house with this explanation, saying that I can't cope the way things and since her income is now needed to care for her and he refuses to give it to me the only option is that she comes to live with him and he cares for her.

I suspect he will very quickly find a better solution for everyone.

[Mrsjayy]

The same man who bought my grandmothers house was also investigated by ss finance team as he had been squirreling away his own mothers money for her care home Ss will help you Op to get your mothers money that is hers not his i think your mum now needs nursing care

[winewolfhowls]

Oh op i am so upset on your behalf this is a terrible story and i agree with others who say you are a saint. At the minimum your mum should have been paying you food and contributing to other bills. Your mum's money should have been used to give your family respite holidays too.

Your brother is in my opinion totally without a moral compass or conscience. How could he treat you like this?

I agree with others about the police. If he is spending money that hasnt been explicitly given to him it is theft. No one is allowed to help themselves from another's bank account even if it is your mums (if she wanted him to have the money she should have set up a direct debit or other arrangements while she had capacity) him being an accountant makes it so much worse as he knows exactly what he is doing.

I also agree with others that it is sad but it may be the best time to find your mum a home now she has declined. You have done above and beyond and its okay to let someone else have the burden and also investigate the finances.

Remember your own mental and physical health at this time, as others have said people may continue a long time in a poor state of health. Take care

[kimistayingalive]

You could also tell your brother that he can have your mum then so he can look after her and deal with all her financial needs thus freeing you of that responsibility.
If he's not willing to do that then he should not have rights to the money especially for his own selfish reasons.
But I definitely agree with other posters with regards of hiring a solicitor if possible.